acka-research Digest Saturday, January 02 1999 Volume 04 : Issue 002 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3977 Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:35:53 -0500 (EST) I don't think Parties were destroyed, and if they were, the Party Swingerhsips became Provisional, they are not destroyed yet. Niccolo Flychuck On Fri, 1 Jan 1999 jtraub@dragoncat.net wrote: > Proposal 3977 > Messing with swingers > NY E NJ > Due: Fri Jan 8 13:54:54 1999 > > > Ammend rule 11-1 (Party Hall) to read as follws (in full): > > "I. Swingerships and Provisional Swingerships are tradeable entities. > The owner of a Swingership is known as aSwinger. > > II. If less than seven Swingerships exist, a player may create a new > Swingership by paying 10 times the Standard Harfer Fee to the Treasury, > and specifying a legal Ackanomic name which can be used to refer to the > new Swingership. > > III. Any player may destroy a Swingership they own. > > IV. Whenever a Swingership is destroyed, all Party Chess Pieces > associated with it are destroyed. > > V. A Swingership belonging to a player on vacation is called a Warm > Swingership. > > VI. Any player may change the name of a swingership they own by > announcing the name change and paying the standard harfer fee. > > {{Destroy all swingerships.}} > > {{[Hopefully this will allow party chess to begin anew. At the moment > myself and Niccolo are the only swingers after the destruction of orgs. > This will also give me an opportunity to get all the party chess stuff > sorted]}} > > > ------------------------------ > > End of acka-voting Digest V4 #1 > ******************************* > ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3954 accepted Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 18:52:41 -0500 (EST) >7 votes? Scaremonger, do your thing! (Unless you've already been repealed, in >which case do it anyway, but in a non-rule mandated way!) I was going to stay on vacation another day or two, but I had a nightmare that the number of voters had dropped absurdly low and that the few remaining ones had passed some really stupid proposals. I return from vacation (reluctantly). ACKANOMIC is on the verge of COLLAPSE! We are all DOOMED! No one is voting, and fewer people are voting right! -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3979 Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 19:42:29 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 jtraub@dragoncat.net wrote: >Proposal 3979 >I was young and foolish then >NY E NJ >Due: Sat Jan 9 19:10:35 1999 > >Whenever someone wins a cycle, the rule through which they gained their >winning condition is repealed. Personally, I think it would be better converting these to Quests rather than repealing them after one win. I will be voting against this. Yes, I think we need to change how the game is won occasionally, but cycling it that quickly is a bad idea (imho) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: K 2 Subject: Acka: No the subject of non-entity manipulation Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 22:15:10 -0500 (EST) JT wrote: > Perhaps, but that would be a case of a non-entity causing rule-generated > effects, and I'm fairly sure we had a discussion about that and decided > that didn't happen :) The rules have change substantially since then and I can no longer find grounding for such an interpretation.... When the rule defining political parties was repealed, political parties became non-entities (entities are entities iif the rules say so) but were not destroyed - thus the party swingership to provisional swingership conversion hasn't happened (yet). That said I believe it is possible for a public action to destroy a non-entity and for that action to have a meaningful effect. (In this case the destruction of a non-entity party would convert the associated party swingership into a provisional one) Rule 7 (Entities) has a lot to say on the manipulation of entities but not on non-entities. Most importantly the following section: " Manipulation of an entity is permissible if such manipulation is not explicitly regulated by the rules, and such manipulation would not have a material effect on the game. In other words, the game state must be the same after the manipulation as it would have been had the manipulation not occurred. " governs *only* _entities_. Furthermore non-entities (the manipulation and effects thereof) are only governed by the following rules: Rule 2-1 (Voting on Proposals) : non-entities may not vote. Rule 4 (Players and Player States) : Non-player persons are not entities. Rule 4-4 (Characteristics) : Certain types of entities may be defined as having Characteristics, which are named but are not entities. Rule 10-1-5 (Gone But Not Forgotten) : Exhibits are not entities. So since the manipulation of non-entity parties is not regulated, rule 1 applies: " The rules and the game state may only be changed as described in the rules. Actions described in the rules may only be performed, and shall only have those effects, as specified by the rules. Whatever is not explicitly prohibited or regulated by the rules, however, is permitted and unregulated. Game custom, spirit of the game, and linguistic interpretation are external concepts and are not regulated or part of the game state. " The action of party destruction has the effect of converting party swingerships into provisional swingerships (according to Rule 11-1 (Party Hall) . The action of non-entity destruction is not prohibited or regulated and is thus permitted and unregulated. Nothing prevents a non-entity manipulation from having any effect granted that manipulation by the rules. K 2 ------------------------------ End of acka-research Digest V4 #2 *********************************