From: owner-acka-research-digest@muppetlabs.com (acka-research-digest) To: acka-research-digest@muppetlabs.com Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #196 Reply-To: acka-research@muppetlabs.com Sender: owner-acka-research-digest@muppetlabs.com Errors-To: owner-acka-research-digest@muppetlabs.com Precedence: bulk acka-research-digest Saturday, August 22 1998 Volume 03 : Number 196 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 01:52:38 -0400 (EDT) From: K2 Subject: Acka: CSR submission RFC This is a CSR submission/suggestion to the CSRR and a quick RFC to see if I've missed anything. Hopefully this will remove the "interesting" wording that resulted out of the global replaces. - ---- Amend Section V "Upon Becoming (and while) Vacationing" of Rule 250 (Players and Player States) by replacing the phrase "Players who gone on Vacation voluntarily" with "Players who go on Vacation voluntarily" Amend section iii of Rule 403 (Functional Offices, Commonalties) by replacing the phrase "for a Functional Office vacated by vacation." with "for a Functional Office whose encumberant is on Vacation." Amend Rule 370 (No E-mail, No Game) by replacing the phrase "A player inactivated" in the second paragraph with "A player put on Vacation". [P3451 will fix this if it passes]. [JT's proposal will prolly fix these anyway?] Amend Section 8 of Rule 1250.23 (Eleusis) by replacing : the phrase "When a player goes vacationing," in its first sentance with "When a player goes on Vacation". the phrase "If a player goes vacationing" in its second sentence with "If a player goes on Vacation". the sentance [4th] "If the player going vacationing is the Deus, they must notify their substitute of the secret rule before they go vacationing." with "If Deus goes on Vacation, they must notify their substitute of the secret rule before they go on Vacation.". the phrase "When a player is vacationing," in the final sentene with "While a player is on Vacation,". [I might try to repeal this, but for the present I'll just fix it] Amend Rule 594.24 (Blueprint: Finger of Justice) by replaceing the first paragraph with: A Finger of Justice is a life-size replica of the index finger from the left hand of the Brass Monkey. It exists in three mutually exclusive states: vacationing, active and quiescent. When created it is in the vacationing state. - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:19:11 -0400 (EDT) From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CSR submission RFC On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, K2 wrote: >[I might try to repeal this, but for the present I'll just fix it] >Amend Rule 594.24 (Blueprint: Finger of Justice) by replaceing the first >paragraph with: >A Finger of Justice is a life-size replica of the index finger from the >left hand of the Brass Monkey. It exists in three mutually >exclusive states: vacationing, active and quiescent. When created it is >in the vacationing state. I'd say you missed something, you left it as 'vacationing' instead of 'inactive' in the finger :) - --JT ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 05:58:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3462 On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Niccolo Flychuck wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote: > > > > > Proposal 3462 > > > Dancing With Danger > > > Slakko (Duncan Richer) > > > > > > [Aim of this proposal: to make the use of Tammany interesting. Currently > > > Tammany only makes one vote per proposal, at most. The main gist of this > > > proposal is to change that to one vote for each bribing player. However, > > > all votes are cast for the winning side, which makes for an interesting > > > game. ] > > > >We already have Bonus Votes whcih count one per player up to a maximum > > four per proposal. > > I don't think it's a good idea to let tammany cast multiple votes. > > The key point of my proposal is that now a Tammany bribe can have a > backfiring effect -if people are competing to push Tammany over to their > side, the winning side gets one vote for everyone who bribed, including > the losers. > That may be the key point, the key effect however is that tammany may have as many votes as the rest of acka put together. > I thought that this backfiring effect was more interesting than the way > Bonus Votes are used. It will probably be used just as often. If you set a maximum number of votes on it, then I might support it. Niccolo Flychuck ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:00:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3462 On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer wrote: > > (1) The minimum Tammany bribe is A$25, not A$5. > (2) If four people are clearly so interested in a proposal that they would > expend 4 Bonus Votes and A$100 (at least, possibly as much as A$400) to > attempt to get it through, and no-one else cares enough to attempt to > oppose the measure (by casting their own Bonus Votes or organising their > own posse to oppose the Tammany bribes), then why shouldn't it pass? > > (Actually, if 4 people want to ensure that their Tammany bribes work > against even 1 person, they will need to spend more than A$200. > It only takes 2 people sufficiently against a proposal to eliminate the > Tammany bribes of up to 4 people -A$200 spent on SILENT votes would > cancel out A$400 on YES votes.) > > So the Tammany would only succeed if less than two people cared > sufficiently to try to sink the proposal. I don't think that this is > sufficient to unbalance the game. This has nothing to do with caring sufficiently. It's not realistic to expect players to tammany every propsal they happen to care about on the off chance that someone will try to scam that specific proposal. Niccolo Flychuck ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:04:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Richer Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3462 On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Uri Bruck wrote: > > So the Tammany would only succeed if less than two people cared > > sufficiently to try to sink the proposal. I don't think that this is > > sufficient to unbalance the game. > > This has nothing to do with caring sufficiently. It's not realistic to > expect players to tammany every propsal they happen to care about on the > off chance that someone will try to scam that specific proposal. What if we adjusted it by requiring Tammany bribes to be public? - -- Duncan C. "" Richer aka Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:33:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Richer Subject: Re: Acka: CSR submission RFC On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, K2 wrote: > This is a CSR submission/suggestion to the CSRR and a quick RFC to see > if I've missed anything. Hopefully this will remove the "interesting" > wording that resulted out of the global replaces. > > ---- > Amend Section V "Upon Becoming (and while) Vacationing" of Rule 250 > (Players and Player States) by replacing the phrase "Players who gone on > Vacation voluntarily" with "Players who go on Vacation voluntarily" > > Amend section iii of Rule 403 (Functional Offices, Commonalties) by > replacing the phrase "for a Functional Office vacated by vacation." with > "for a Functional Office whose encumberant is on Vacation." Actually I think you mean "incumbent". Even then, for simplicity in reading it might be clearer with "for a Functional Office held by a Vacationing player." - -- Duncan C. "" Richer aka Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: alfvaen@telusplanet.net (Aaron V. Humphrey) Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3473 > Create a new rule numbered xxx with the title "Commercial License Rule > Suite" with the text: I'm going to point this out before breadbox does a week from now: This Rule has no number. I can't imagine the problematicity of a Proposal which creates a Rule Suite the head of which is in the Miscellaneous Rules Rule Suite... - -- - --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ ) Song In My Head--Carole King:It's Too Late Current Book--Stephen King:Coffey's Hands Let's break down the formula, let's switch off the set ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:56:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Richer Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3473 On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote: > > > Create a new rule numbered xxx with the title "Commercial License Rule > > Suite" with the text: > > I'm going to point this out before breadbox does a week from now: This > Rule has no number. I can't imagine the problematicity of a Proposal > which creates a Rule Suite the head of which is in the Miscellaneous > Rules Rule Suite... It simply says it creates a Rule Suite. The rule defining Rule Suites states otherwise, and wins in a battle of precedence. No real problem - it doesn't count as a Suite until we move it elsewhere. - -- Duncan C. "" Richer aka Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:24:31 -0400 (EDT) From: K2 Subject: Re: Acka: CSR submission RFC JT wrote: > On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, K2 wrote: > >[I might try to repeal this, but for the present I'll just fix it] > >Amend Rule 594.24 (Blueprint: Finger of Justice) by replaceing the first > >paragraph with: > >A Finger of Justice is a life-size replica of the index finger from the > >left hand of the Brass Monkey. It exists in three mutually > >exclusive states: vacationing, active and quiescent. When created it is > >in the vacationing state. > > I'd say you missed something, you left it as 'vacationing' instead of > 'inactive' in the finger :) > > --JT I thought it was more humorous that way :) K 2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:12:47 -0400 (EDT) From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3467 On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote: >Create a new rule numbered 441 (or the next largest integer which has >not been assigned to a rule) titled "Dungeon Master" with the following >text: >" >The Office of Dungeon Master is an optional office, whose duties are: >(i) to generate Characteristic Values as specified in the previous >paragraph when required to do so. ^^^^^^^^^ Um, what previous paragraph? :) - --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:21:22 -0400 (EDT) From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3472 On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote: >{{[Defining Net Worth]}} > >Create a new rule as a member of the Characteristics Rule Suite with the >title "Net Worth" and the text: >Net Worth is a characteristic possessed by all tradeable entities which >the financier is responsible for tracking. >An Entity's Net Worth may take any positive integer. Umm. what happens when a player has negative A$ and no trinkets? I would think this should make their net worth negative, but this wouldn't allow that. Also, you might now be required to track each A$ seperately to track the Net Worth of that A$, which might be a bad thing. >If the amount of A$s in circulation plus sum of the Net Worth of all >Tradeable Entities exceeded the amount in the Treasury at the time this >winner was declared, the following shall occur: 20% (round down) of each >Entity's Total Wealth is owed to the Treasury. The winner shall owe only >10% (round down), however. This tromps all over another proposal in the queue you realize :) - --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:03:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Towsner Subject: Acka: Point Pool RFC, Draft 3 Thank you /dev/joe for your help. If there are no major complaints this will probably be the last RFC, though I'm waiting for something from JT before proposing it. #submit Let's all go point swimming Create a new rule reading as delimited by TIMEDELAY TIMEDELAY The following HEREGOESNOTHING-delimited text will not do anything until two weeks from when this rule is created, at which point it will take effect. HEREGOESNOTHING In rule 207 (Scoring when a proposal's voting results are reported) alter section III to read as delimited by HOKEYPOKEY HOKEYPOKEY If a proposal is accepted or rejected the points invested by each player are transfered to the point pool for that proposal. When a proposal is accepted one quarter of the invested points other than the kick in rounded down are transfered to the proposer; when a proposal is rejected the kick in is transfered to the Treasury. Regardless, the winning side divides the invested points proportionally to the amount invested. When the pool cannot be divided proportionally, all fractions are rounded down, and the remaining points in the pool are given (one per investor) to theinvestors who had the largest fractions rounded down, and in case of ties,to the largest investors first, with further ties being broken randomly. The scorekeeper is responsible for these determinations. HOKEYPOKEY Replace the first paragraph of rule 104 with "A Voting player may submit a proposal by sending its text to the Promoter along with the number of points e is investing on it (the kick in), who shall then post it publicly along with the kick in to be voted on." At the end of the first sentence of rule 106 add "along with, if the vote is either YES or NO, the number of points e is investing." Remove section V of rule 207 and renumber the other elements in the list accordingly. Alter the second sentence of section V (formerly VI) of rule 207 to read "When a Null Proposal is accepted all players receive the number of points they invested in it from the proposal's pool." Alter the second sentence of section VI (formerly VII) of rule 207 to read "When a Boring Proposal is accepted or rejected all players receive the number of points they invested in it from the proposal's pool." Repeal rule 207.1 (Sillyness) {{[I hope I can keep this.]}} Repeal rule 207.3 (Foolishness) {{[See above]}} Repeal rule 210 (Literature) {{[Once again...]}} In rule 250 (Player States) remove step d from section VI and reletter the steps accordingly. Remove rule 319 (Unanimity is Lovely...) In rule 330 (Retractions) alter the last sentence of the first paragraph to read "A player other than a newbie who retracts eir own proposal in this manner loses all points invested in the kick in, they are transferred to the treasury. A newbie has eir kick in returned. All other points invested in the proposal are returned to their investors." In rule 330 remove everything in the second paragraph after and including "unless". In rule 330 remove the third sentence of the third paragraph. Remove the last sentence of rule 330. In rule 374 (Politeness Moon) alter the last two sentences to read "If the verdict of the Hearing shows that the message was not polite, 3 points are transferred from the player who sent it to the player who called the Hearing. If it shows that it was polite, its author gets the nickname Jazz JackRabbit for the next 3 days and the player who called the hearing transfers 2 points to the author." In rule 404 (Impeachment) replace "is penalized 10 points" with "transfers 10 points to the player the IP was called against" Remove the second sentence of secton III of rule 419.2 (Internomic Interface) In rule 603 (Winning by Points) replace the second two sentences of the third paragraph with "The base value of the magic number is 2000." Replace the second sentence of rule 603 with "Points are tradeable entities, however any trade which would result in the receiver having more than 75% of the magic number fails as does any which would result in a player having negative points." In the second paragraph of rule 603, replace everything after the semi-colon with "when a player is said to lose points, the points are transfered to the Treausry, when a player gains point they are transfered from the treasury. If there are not enough points to cover a trade ordered by the rules, as many points as can be traded without any entity having negative points are." In rule 666 (End of Cycle) alter section i to read "A player's fair share is the number of points they would own of all points were distributed evenly. Any player owning more than double their fair share loses one quarter of their points, which go into the winning pool. Those points are distributed one-by-one to the player who owns the fewest points until there are no points left. This repeats until no player owns more than double their fair share. Replace the last sentence of the first paragraph of rule 901 (The Magic Potato) with "When a proposal made by the player who currently hold the Magic Potato is rejected, e receives eir kick in back; this sentence takes precedence over rule 207." Remove the last sentence of rule 901. Remove rule 919 (Brass Monkey) Remove the last sentence of the second to last paragraph of rule 961 (B-Ack) as well as the last paragraph. Remove "5 points (a score change based on proposal content) and" from rule 1112 Remove "When a player is designated "Funky and Stylish", they gain 5 points" from rule 1112 Replace "the penalized player's score (after having the penalty revoked) will be raised to the first prime number higher than their current score" with "the penalty will be revoked" in rule 1129 Remove section 8 of rule 1211 and reletter accordingly. Remove the last sentence of the first paragraph of section H of rule 1213. Remove rule 1313 (tornado) Remove the last sentence of the second to last paragraph of rule 1350. Remove the second to last sentence of rule 594.1 Repeal rule 594.3 Remove item 4 from rule 594.21 Remove the last sentence of paragraph two of section III of rule 594.26 Remove ", and a player shall gain 6 points the first time e publically describes all four of the above" from rule 950.1 Destroy all points. Create 50 points in the possesion of each player. Create 1000 points in the treasury. HEREGOESNOTHING TIMEDELAY #end ________ - -- - -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ End of acka-research-digest V3 #196 ***********************************