Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 00:00:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: acka-games-digest@ackanomic.org
To: acka-games digest users <acka-games@ackanomic.org>
Reply-to: acka-games@ackanomic.org
Subject: acka-games Digest V4 #88
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acka-games Digest	Friday, August 06 1999	Volume: 04  Issue: 088


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Subject: Acka: Fictionary (K 2)
From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:00:33 -0400 (EDT)


Here are the results for this round of Fictionary:

The definitions:

1. A New Zealand shrub or small tree having clusters of long, narrow leaves.
(submitted by K 2; voted for by Studge; sheeped on by K 2)

2. The fist.  (A real definition; voted for by /dev/joe, Vynd, & Emperor
Ai! Pedrito!)

3. A young Dutch bandit; variant on English knave.  (submitted by Studge & 
Dragon Mage)

4. archaic: rather (submitted by Emperor Ai! Pedrito!)

5. naif.  (submitted by /dev/joe & Vynd)


Luckily neither of the pairs of similar definitions were voted for, so I
don't have to decipher that clause of the rule.  Unfortunately, several
people were able to discern the real definition, so my Brainiachoods this
game continue to be suboptimal.  (I plead time pressure in my word choice
this round, though.)

(By the way, another definition of "neif" was "A woman born in the state
of villeinage; a female serf.", which I considered to be sufficiently
dissimilar to Studge & JT's definitions to not wash myself out utterly
this round...)

Anyway, the scores:

K 2 receives 1 point for Studge's vote.
/dev/joe, Vynd, and Emperor Ai! Pedrito! each get 2 points for voting for the
correct definition.
Dragon Mage loses 1 point for performing the default action this round.
(Unless I missed eir vote...)


CURRENT POINTS:

Vynd: 9
Alfvaen: 14
K2: 14
/dev/joe: 7
Dragon Mage: 17
Studge: 2
Emperor Ai! Pedrito!: 12


I believe that K 2 once again follows me as Brainiac...


--
--Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Current Song--Foreigner:Cold As Ice
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Red Orc's Rage
Claviceps lives, bevels baklava.  Lively clavichord lava.


------------------------------

From: JT <jtraub@dragoncat.net>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary (K 2)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:32:18 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 2. The fist.  (A real definition; voted for by /dev/joe, Vynd, & Emperor
> Ai! Pedrito!)
> 
> 3. A young Dutch bandit; variant on English knave.  (submitted by Studge & 
> Dragon Mage)

[snip]

> (By the way, another definition of "neif" was "A woman born in the state
> of villeinage; a female serf.", which I considered to be sufficiently
> dissimilar to Studge & JT's definitions to not wash myself out utterly
> this round...)
> 
> Anyway, the scores:
> 
> K 2 receives 1 point for Studge's vote.
> /dev/joe, Vynd, and Emperor Ai! Pedrito! each get 2 points for voting for the
> correct definition.
> Dragon Mage loses 1 point for performing the default action this round.
> (Unless I missed eir vote...)

[snip]
I did not vote because of the following piece of mail which you sent.

On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
 
> Submission of definitions for the ing word "neif" is now closed.
> 
> One player(Dragon Mage) submitted a definition which I considered to be
> substantially similar to an online definition.  E receives 4 gamepoints
> and is not required to vote.  Two other players submitted definitions  
> which are substantially similar to each other; one of these has been 
> removed.

Either you improperly reported my points and improperly held voting
or you improperly reported that my definition was similar.

--JT/Dragon Mage/German Dog

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]


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From: JT <jtraub@dragoncat.net>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary (K 2)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:38:56 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, JT wrote:
> > 3. A young Dutch bandit; variant on English knave.  (submitted by Studge & 
> > Dragon Mage)
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > (By the way, another definition of "neif" was "A woman born in the state
> > of villeinage; a female serf.", which I considered to be sufficiently
> > dissimilar to Studge & JT's definitions to not wash myself out utterly
> > this round...)

For the record, the actual definition I submitted was:
> Hrmmm... *scratch*  I think I know this one, but I'm not sure 100% sure.
>
> I believe it means:  serf or villian, (variant of knave)

If mine was in fact sufficiently similar to both the original (it seems to
be since the original etymology of villain (yeah, I misspelled it when I
submitted it) is 'villein', ie serf) and to Studge's then the voting
shouldn't have been called at all.

I'm willing to take this to a CFJ if need be, because I would have voted
had I not had Alfvaen's original mail telling me that I'd guessed
correctly.

--JT

-- 
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]


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Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary (K 2)
From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 01:27:50 -0400 (EDT)


Dragon Mage is correct and I was just suffering from Terminal Brain Melt.

Corrected CURRENT POINTS:

Vynd: 9
Alfvaen: 14
K2: 14
/dev/joe: 7
Dragon Mage: 22
Studge: 2
Emperor Ai! Pedrito!: 12

I apologize for my own confusion and thwap myself with the Salmon of
Correction.


--
--Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Lisa Stansfield:All Around The World
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Red Orc's Rage
'It was hell,' recalls former child.


------------------------------

From: John Frederic Mc Coy <jmccoy@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary (K 2)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:21:44 -0400 (EDT)


On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> 
> Here are the results for this round of Fictionary:
> 
> The definitions:
> 
> 1. A New Zealand shrub or small tree having clusters of long, narrow leaves.
> (submitted by K 2; voted for by Studge; sheeped on by K 2)
> 
> 2. The fist.  (A real definition; voted for by /dev/joe, Vynd, & Emperor
> Ai! Pedrito!)
> 
> 3. A young Dutch bandit; variant on English knave.  (submitted by Studge & 
> Dragon Mage)
> 
> 4. archaic: rather (submitted by Emperor Ai! Pedrito!)
> 
> 5. naif.  (submitted by /dev/joe & Vynd)
> 

I must admit I was dismayed to have my definition lumped together with
/dev/joe's. I decided not to make any complaint during the round because I
didn't want to foul up the game, but now that it is over...

My definition was something along the lines of: A foolish or naive person.

Now as I see it, this definition is quite different than /dev/joe's.
/dev/joe's word has the same meaning as my sentence, but they are not the
*same*. Here is why. If someone knows what the word naif means, then they
know that my submission has the same meaning. But if they do not know
exactly what naif means, then my submission remains a perfectly viable
option (unless they don't know what foolish means, anyway).

Perhaps I'm being too picky. But since the entire reasoning behind my
definition was that maybe someone who had neif confused with naif would
vote for it, I was disappointed to see it lumped together with the word
naif itself. Not that anyone who had neif and naif confused would be very
likely to vote for my definition if naif was also an option...

Vynd


------------------------------

From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary (K 2)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:32:25 -0400 (EDT)


>I must admit I was dismayed to have my definition lumped together with
>/dev/joe's. I decided not to make any complaint during the round because I
>didn't want to foul up the game, but now that it is over...

>My definition was something along the lines of: A foolish or naive person.

>Now as I see it, this definition is quite different than /dev/joe's.
>/dev/joe's word has the same meaning as my sentence, but they are not the
>*same*. Here is why. If someone knows what the word naif means, then they
>know that my submission has the same meaning. But if they do not know
>exactly what naif means, then my submission remains a perfectly viable
>option (unless they don't know what foolish means, anyway).

>Perhaps I'm being too picky. But since the entire reasoning behind my
>definition was that maybe someone who had neif confused with naif would
>vote for it, I was disappointed to see it lumped together with the word
>naif itself. Not that anyone who had neif and naif confused would be very
>likely to vote for my definition if naif was also an option...

I do apologize.  But I did consider them too similar in meaning, and I was
forced by the Rules to select one of them _randomly_ to display.  I would have
rather had yours instead of /dev/joe's as well.  :-)

But then the whole strategy of Fictionary definitions and voting is trying to
second-guess what other people would come up with for definitions.  You want
a definition that doesn't look too strange, like it could never be associated
with that word, but you don't want something that looks like it's the first
thing that would occur to some Bluffer free-associating that word.  I think
that's why the correct definition this round got as many votes as it did,
because it wasn't related to "knave" or "naif".

Also, let's not forget that if the real definition _was_ "A foolish or naive
person", I would have accepted "naif" as close enough.  And vice versa.  And
that's the level of similarity criterion I use to determine if fake definitions
are sufficiently similar or not.  (Because if you eliminate synonyms to the
real definition, but not to fake definitions, then pairs of synonyms are both
patently not the real definition...)

And I wish that I hadn't been getting so many similar definitions to have to
make these kind of tough calls this game.  :-/


--
--Alfvaen(Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/)
Song In My Head--Nina Hagen:New York, New York
Current Book--Philip Jose Farmer:Red Orc's Rage
O my love, you are worth your weight in subway tokens.


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End of acka-games Digest V4 #88
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