From Arasine@n... Tue Nov 21 08:05:41 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: Arasine@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_1); 21 Nov 2000 16:05:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 17981 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2000 16:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2000 16:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Nov 2000 16:05:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Arasine@n... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2000 16:05:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:05:25 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: First things first Message-ID: <8ve6g5+b2u3@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 138 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.253.128.5 From: "Keith Humphreys" Hi im Keith aka Arasine aka forget_ituk aka midnight I think i get the idea for this but a couple of example messages would be helpful ! From chris_harris2@l... Tue Nov 21 12:21:56 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_1); 21 Nov 2000 20:21:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 32436 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2000 20:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2000 20:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Nov 2000 20:21:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: chris_harris2@l... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2000 20:21:55 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:21:55 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Please help Message-ID: <8velh3+flbk@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 113 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 213.1.31.159 From: chris_harris2@l... I do not understand what this is all about, i like mind games and found this on lateral puzzles, i am chris1huk From wandrer@w... Tue Nov 21 13:22:54 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_1); 21 Nov 2000 21:22:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 10246 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2000 21:22:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Nov 2000 21:22:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Nov 2000 21:22:53 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eALLMpw22207 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:22:51 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:22:51 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DAA@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: The name of the game Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:22:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." I have read more about it. It involves more, though, than is stated at the eGroup website. The initial rules are as follows: http://www.stack.nl/unplugged/rpg/irs.html I think however, that these rules are a bit too explicit for beginners... yours nomically, Stefan --- Just use the power of your Mind.... From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 21 14:19:43 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_1); 21 Nov 2000 22:19:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 85528 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2000 22:19:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Nov 2000 22:19:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.160) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Nov 2000 22:19:41 -0000 Received: from tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (tot-wl.proxy.aol.com [205.188.199.1]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA12749 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:19:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC85582A.ipt.aol.com [172.133.88.42]) by tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eALMJW814098 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:19:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A1AF482.FC3422E3@y...> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:17:38 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Clearing up a few things References: <8ve6g5+b2u3@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale Stefan I think is talking about Nomic, which has lots of rules, made up by other people. This is an adaptation called Pure Nomic and really does start with only one rule. That is: Any amendment to the rules can be made only if agreed to by all players. And that is the *only* rule at this stage. Keith and Chris, it's not very complicated, honest. I'll try to start by proposing a rule or two and then we'll see how we go from there. ------ I propose that rules can be proposed in future by the use of the egroups polling system. ------ Note: the polling system, for any who may not know, can be accessed by going to http://www.egroups.com/ and signing in with your email address, and the password which should have been emailed to you. Then, under 'My Groups', you can go to the pure_nomic page. This can also be accessed by http://www.egroups.com/group/pure_nomic and then clicking on the link which says 'polls' allows you to create or vote in polls. This could be a useful resource for the proposal of rules, and also notifies everyone automatically when a new rule is created. Yours hoping-everyone-including-herself-will-enjoy-playing-this-game -because-it-sounds-fun-ly, Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Tue Nov 21 18:02:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 50587 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 02:02:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 02:02:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 03:03:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.106] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 02:02:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 31408 invoked by uid 65534); 22 Nov 2000 02:02:36 -0000 Date: 22 Nov 2000 02:02:36 -0000 Message-ID: <974858556.31401@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that all members should propose a new rule at least once a week. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 22 03:31:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29454 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 11:31:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 11:31:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 12:32:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.163] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 11:31:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 7409 invoked by uid 65534); 22 Nov 2000 11:31:26 -0000 Date: 22 Nov 2000 11:31:26 -0000 Message-ID: <974892686.7408@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that we amend the first rule, so that a vote can be won by majority (more than 50% of the members of the list) rather than requiring absolute agreement. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From russellp@m... Wed Nov 22 08:06:23 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: russellp@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 16:06:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 30891 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 16:06:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 16:06:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 16:06:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: russellp@m... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 16:06:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:06:15 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Game Aim Message-ID: <8vgqtn+s3f0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 291 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 195.80.1.233 From: russellp@m... So what's the aim of this game/puzzle - if there's only one rule which isn't really related to the completion of the game? Is the idea to develop a game from scratch and then play it or are we already playing it? That is if we do actually play it at all. Oh no I've gone crosseyed..... From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Nov 22 08:26:10 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 16:26:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 5367 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 16:26:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 16:26:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4406.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 16:26:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20001122162602.4776.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.158.227] by web4406.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:26:02 PST Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:26:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Game Aim To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick I think you've hit the nail on the head. Sooner or later, someone will propse an objective, and if it gets voted in then that'll be the objective. I'd say that we're already playing it, we just don't know where we're headed yet. --- russellp@m... wrote: > So what's the aim of this game/puzzle - if there's > only one rule > which isn't really related to the completion of the > game? Is the > idea to develop a game from scratch and then play it > or are we > already playing it? That is if we do actually play > it at all. Oh no I've > gone crosseyed..... > > =====

"The life which is unexamined is not worth living"

-Plato

 

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From benjamin.jones1@n... Wed Nov 22 13:08:01 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: benjamin.jones1@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 21:08:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 772 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 21:08:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 21:08:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.46) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 21:08:00 -0000 Received: from tinypc ([213.104.144.24]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20001122210753.ULQN5359.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@tinypc> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:07:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c054c8$27280360$189068d5@tinypc> To: Subject: THE OBJECT Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:40:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Ben Jones" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI JEFF, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, I WOULD SUGGEST FOR STARTERS THAT WE GUESS HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL JOIN BY THE 30TH NOV HOW MANY MEN AND HOW MANY WOMEN I WILL KICK IT OFF BY SAYING 30 MEN AND 20 WOMEN DAVE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wandrer@w... Wed Nov 22 13:17:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 21:17:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 86231 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 21:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 21:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta04-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 22:18:33 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta04-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1753790c58305fd3f286395c4a42fdc7) with SMTP id <20001122211843.VLCH389.amsmta04-svc@marcel> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:18:43 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c054c9$a5fc29e0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <000201c054c8$27280360$189068d5@tinypc> Subject: Subject of message nr. 2 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:17:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" Just visiting this eGroup's website, something curious happened to meet my eye: there were ten messages, numbered 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 It is obvious, therefore, that there's one message missing!! I therefore propose that whatever the outcome of the game will eventually be, it will not be valid unless all proposals ever proposed are available for all contestants at that point. Bear in mind, though, that it's now absolutely necessary to retrieve the content of message number 2, as it might contain a proposal... I will set up a poll as well in a minute. yours wanting-to-know-it-all-ly, Stefan --- Just use the power of your Mind... From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 22 13:21:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97813 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 21:20:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 21:20:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mu.egroups.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 22:22:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.134] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 21:20:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 6001 invoked by uid 65534); 22 Nov 2000 21:20:57 -0000 Date: 22 Nov 2000 21:20:57 -0000 Message-ID: <974928057.5999@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that whatever the outcome of the game will eventually be, it will not be valid unless all proposals ever proposed are available for all contestants at that point, to examine them that is. o yes, that's a good rule! o no, it will spoil the game.. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From chris_harris2@l... Wed Nov 22 14:25:33 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 22:25:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 32838 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 22:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 22:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 23:26:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: chris_harris2@l... Received: from [10.1.10.69] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 22:25:33 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:25:28 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Apology Message-ID: <8vhh4o+p3oc@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 271 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 213.1.55.208 From: chris_harris2@l... The missing message number 2 is down to me. I wrote a message asking about the game and then decided it was not worded right, i then changed it and deleted the old one. If anyone would like to see this i still have it in my e-mails and i will gladly send it to anyone From russellp@m... Wed Nov 22 14:58:38 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: russellp@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 22 Nov 2000 22:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 83702 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 22:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 22:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Nov 2000 23:59:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: russellp@m... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 22:58:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:58:26 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Who's Turn? Message-ID: <8vhj2i+73qu@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 339 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 195.80.1.243 From: "Russ " After reading the rules, it is apparent that the basis of this game is played on a turn taking model - I would like to know who's turn it is to suggest a rule for the players to vote on and if we are taking turns in alphabetical order as suggested. Should we also publish a points table to show the points accumilated by each player? From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 22 15:38:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68870 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2000 23:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Nov 2000 23:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 00:39:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.208] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2000 23:38:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 31374 invoked by uid 65534); 22 Nov 2000 23:38:11 -0000 Date: 22 Nov 2000 23:38:11 -0000 Message-ID: <974936291.31373@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I would like to know what direction everyone would like this game to go. o Serious o Humourous o Abstract o Challenging o Other To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 22 16:13:17 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 00:13:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 62148 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 00:13:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 00:13:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.160) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 00:13:16 -0000 Received: from tot-wb.proxy.aol.com (tot-wb.proxy.aol.com [205.188.192.131]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA24895 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC819774.ipt.aol.com [172.129.151.116]) by tot-wb.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eAN0D1m02959 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:13:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A1C611D.CB6D82BB@y...> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:13:17 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] THE OBJECT References: <000201c054c8$27280360$189068d5@tinypc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale > I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, > I WOULD SUGGEST FOR STARTERS THAT WE GUESS HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL JOIN > BY THE 30TH NOV HOW MANY MEN AND HOW MANY WOMEN > I WILL KICK IT OFF BY SAYING 30 MEN AND 20 WOMEN Hi Ben, I think if we want to have an objective, then it is about time that someone proposed one. And then we can vote on it. I think that's the way this works. I've been told that usually someone suggests something like 'the winner will be the first to reach 100 points' and then later rules are introduced to allow people to get points. Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 22 16:19:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10700 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 00:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 00:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 01:20:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.42] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 00:19:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25493 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Nov 2000 00:19:26 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2000 00:19:26 -0000 Message-ID: <974938766.25489@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that henceforwards the polling feature be used only for the proposal of rule amendments, so that it is easy to see all of these at once without the confusion of other polls, and that other issues be discussed on the list. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 22 16:21:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 00:21:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 13871 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 00:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 00:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 01:23:02 -0000 Received: from tot-wa.proxy.aol.com (tot-wa.proxy.aol.com [205.188.192.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA19238 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:21:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC819774.ipt.aol.com [172.129.151.116]) by tot-wa.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eAN0LfC08539 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:21:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A1C6325.48F4B1F9@y...> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:21:57 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Who's Turn? References: <8vhj2i+73qu@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale > After reading the rules, it is apparent that the basis of this game > is played on a turn taking model - I would like to know who's turn > it is to suggest a rule for the players to vote on and if we are > taking turns in alphabetical order as suggested. Should we also > publish a points table to show the points accumilated by each > player? We're playing Pure Nomic. The rules which Stefan sent the link for, are not altogether relevant. So far, in this game, we don't have a turns system, and we also don't have a points scoring system. We've started from scratch. If we want those things, someone will have to propose them and votes can be cast for or against. Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 22 16:28:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 33464 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 00:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 00:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 00:28:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.126] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 00:28:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 3472 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Nov 2000 00:28:00 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2000 00:28:00 -0000 Message-ID: <974939280.3470@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that posts to the email list should be kept with relevant subject lines. This hasn't been a problem with this list as yet, but most lists don't seem to keep relevant subject lines for long. And it would be useful in referencing back to the archives. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 22 20:11:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17711 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 04:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 04:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 05:12:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.91] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 04:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 20106 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Nov 2000 04:11:07 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2000 04:11:07 -0000 Message-ID: <974952667.20104@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that should any player be absent for more than a week without informing everyone else then they shall be removed from the club. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 23 05:25:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55235 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 13:25:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 13:25:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 13:25:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.133] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 13:25:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 13831 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Nov 2000 13:25:26 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2000 13:25:26 -0000 Message-ID: <974985926.13829@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that all members should propose a new rule at least once a week. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 2 votes, 33.33% - No, 4 votes, 66.67% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From Arasine@n... Thu Nov 23 05:29:54 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: Arasine@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 13:29:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 16757 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 13:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 13:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 14:30:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Arasine@n... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 13:29:53 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:29:51 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll Message-ID: <8vj64g+fkpj@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 231 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.253.128.5 From: "Keith Humphreys" Ive closed the poll about every player suggesting a new rule once a week. I know not everyone voted but if we get more than 25 members it would become too draggy just voting in all the new polls. I hope this is ok with everyone. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 23 05:34:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 56808 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 13:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 13:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 13:34:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.133] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 13:34:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 14963 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Nov 2000 13:34:18 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2000 13:34:18 -0000 Message-ID: <974986458.14961@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: There will be no overall winner but a separating of all players by the end into two or more groups, determined by other introduced rules. o Sounds interesting o Oh please...no! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From racheledugdale@y... Thu Nov 23 05:36:18 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 13:36:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 18518 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 13:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 13:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4803.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.245) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 13:36:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20001123133617.20661.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4803.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:36:17 GMT Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:36:17 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= >Ive closed the poll about every player suggesting a new rule >once a week. I >know not everyone voted but if we get more than 25 members it >would become >too draggy just voting in all the new polls. I hope this is ok >with everyone. Well, then, we'll only find out what the actual result of that poll is when we know what *everyone's* votes on my majority-rules suggestion is. So, everyone who hasn't done please vote on that, and please vote for it, so that we can use some of the other results once they get over 50% agreement. Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From racheledugdale@y... Thu Nov 23 11:27:04 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 19:27:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 10394 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 19:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 19:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.160) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 19:27:03 -0000 Received: from tot-wf1-we.proxy.aol.com (tot-wf1-we.proxy.aol.com [205.188.195.3]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA09601 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:27:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC862A6A.ipt.aol.com [172.134.42.106]) by tot-wf1-we.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eANJQwW26180 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:26:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A1D6F8F.AD2B0A51@y...> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:27:11 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Subject: Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale It has just occurred to me that under the current rules, when a proposal recieves one vote against it, it is doomed for now. I won't actually conclude all polls for which there have been 'against' votes on that basis, but it is worth considering. Vote in favour of majorities now before someone suggests we should act on this now I've realised it. Rachel. PS Hi, Jamie. :-) From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 23 11:51:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4750 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 19:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 19:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 19:51:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.208] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 19:51:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 97276 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Nov 2000 19:51:23 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2000 19:51:23 -0000 Message-ID: <975009083.97274@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that it be forbidden to discuss on this list the mathematics of conditional probability and the relative probabilities of having different numbers of children. (Sorry. Something of an in-joke. Please all vote in favour...) o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Thu Nov 23 13:13:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 21:13:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 79947 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 21:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 21:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 21:13:37 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eANLDaw24745 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:13:36 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:13:36 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DAC@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Apology Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:13:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." I guess I must apologize as well for sending a message with rules related to a completely different game... so... sorry! Yours regrettably, Stefan. --- Just use the power of your Mind.... > -----Original Message----- > From: chris_harris2@l... [mailto:chris_harris2@l...] > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 23:25 > To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Apology > > > The missing message number 2 is down to me. > I wrote a message asking about the game and then decided it was not > worded right, i then changed it and deleted the old one. > > If anyone would like to see this i still have it in my e-mails and i > will gladly send it to anyone > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > -------------------------~-~> > eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/1/_/_/_/974931934/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From wandrer@w... Thu Nov 23 13:25:31 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 21:25:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 81909 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 21:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 21:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 22:26:36 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eANLPTw25369 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:25:29 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:25:29 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DAE@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: Max. number of voters Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:25:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." Hi all, I have noticed that the maximum number of votes cast on one proposal is 6. Where are the other (until recently 3) members? Do they check their e-mail often enough?? Do they know how to vote??? btw, since I have a feeling that this might be going on for a while, it might be a good idea to introduce ourselves. For the moment, let it be known that I am Stefan, I am from the Netherlands and was lured into this by Rachel. Now I am tired, tomorrow I have an exam, so goodbye for now! Yours introducingly, Stefan. --- Just use the power of your Mind.... From punkbass_2000@y... Thu Nov 23 14:27:24 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 23 Nov 2000 22:27:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 12626 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2000 22:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2000 22:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2000 23:28:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: punkbass_2000@y... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Nov 2000 22:27:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:27:19 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Max. number of voters Message-ID: <8vk5k7+nr7s@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DAE@s...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 447 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.2.9.37 From: punkbass_2000@y... Hi, I'm Jeff, I'm in Canada, and I too was lured into this by Rachel, though she probably doesn't know it. --- In Pure_Nomic@egroups.com, "Zwam, S.H.M.v." wrote: > For the moment, let it be known that I am Stefan, I am from the Netherlands > and was lured into this by Rachel. > > Now I am tired, tomorrow I have an exam, so goodbye for now! > > Yours introducingly, > > Stefan. > > --- > Just use the power of your Mind.... From racheledugdale@y... Fri Nov 24 03:14:51 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 24 Nov 2000 11:14:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 40359 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2000 11:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2000 11:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4804.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.246) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Nov 2000 11:14:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20001124111450.27030.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:14:50 GMT Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:14:50 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: My luring To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= I believe that everyone here at the moment was lured in to this by me, directly or otherwise... Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From Arasine@n... Fri Nov 24 12:32:32 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: Arasine@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 24 Nov 2000 20:32:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 3757 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2000 20:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2000 20:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Nov 2000 20:32:31 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Arasine@n... Received: from [10.1.10.124] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2000 20:32:31 -0000 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:32:25 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Well and truly lured Message-ID: <8vmj8p+858g@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 204 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.253.128.5 From: "Keith Humphreys" Hello Everyone Im Keith from haunted essex, uk. I was considering what the conditional probibilty of me relpying to Rachel was a minute ago, but now ive decided to have a cup of tea instead. :-) From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Fri Nov 24 12:37:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18017 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2000 20:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Nov 2000 20:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Nov 2000 20:37:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.111] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2000 20:37:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 57725 invoked by uid 65534); 24 Nov 2000 20:37:29 -0000 Date: 24 Nov 2000 20:37:29 -0000 Message-ID: <975098249.57723@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that all votes should have a ten day time limit o Good idea :-) o Bad idea :-( To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Nov 26 10:16:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 72091 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2000 18:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2000 18:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Nov 2000 18:16:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.114] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2000 18:16:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 14116 invoked by uid 65534); 26 Nov 2000 18:16:52 -0000 Date: 26 Nov 2000 18:16:52 -0000 Message-ID: <975262612.14114@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: Eve ryvo tes houl dha Veso meso rtof puzz lein itt oma Ket hem mo Rein ter est in Gan dyo uca non lyvot eif yo Uhv sol v edit. o Gre Ati Dea o Abs Olu Tepa Nts To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Nov 26 12:34:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5653 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2000 20:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2000 20:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Nov 2000 20:34:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.69] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2000 20:34:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 81465 invoked by uid 65534); 26 Nov 2000 20:34:07 -0000 Date: 26 Nov 2000 20:34:07 -0000 Message-ID: <975270847.81462@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that all polls should be presented in the English language o Yes, let's do that o No way! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Mon Nov 27 03:00:36 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 27 Nov 2000 11:00:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 39301 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2000 11:00:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2000 11:00:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta01-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Nov 2000 11:00:36 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta01-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1753790c58305fd3f286395c4a42fdc7) with SMTP id <20001127105625.EZLJ29661.amsmta01-svc@marcel> for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:56:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c05861$581f6b60$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <975270847.81462@egroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:01:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" Dat lijkt me een heel goed idee! Anders snapt niemand er meer iets van.... Stefan. Just use the power of your Mind... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:34 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic > group: > > > I propose that all polls should be > presented in the English language > > o Yes, let's do that > o No way! > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From james.johnston@s... Mon Nov 27 10:33:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 27 Nov 2000 18:33:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 73179 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2000 18:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2000 18:33:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Nov 2000 19:35:01 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 140T6B-0003E8-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:33:55 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140T6A-00036D-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:33:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:33:54 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Lurings Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Since it seems to have become traditional to declare how one was lured onto this list, I should probably state for the record that I volunteered, entirely unlured (gasp!), to join when Rachel told me she'd set up a list for playing Pure Nomic, a day or two after I introduced her to said game (for my own introduction to the game see my previous mail - the incident described occurred a week or two ago). Jamie From james.johnston@s... Mon Nov 27 11:07:55 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 27 Nov 2000 19:07:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 73350 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2000 18:56:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2000 18:56:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Nov 2000 18:56:08 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 140TRf-0007hS-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:56:07 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140TRf-0003Kj-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:56:07 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:56:07 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rule proposals Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston I have a few proposals: 1. That the amendment to the initial rule to the effect that rules be passed by majority vote rather than unanimous vote be repealed, and the original rule reinstated, requiring new rules to be agreed by all players. 2. That proposals in future be put forward by e-mailing them to this list, as I have done here, before being put on the website as polls, and given an opportunity for the group to discuss the proposal and suggest amendments. 3. That as part of the proposal of a rule, the proposer suggests a short, descriptive name for the rule they are proposing, which will become the name of that rule if the rule is passed. I'll just briefly set out a few arguments in favour of my proposals, in the interests of group discussion. For proposal 1: I've only played this game once before, but from that game I found that requiring the rules to be unanimously agreed made the game much better than requiring only a majority. It encourages discussion and collaboration between players, rtaher just a flat yes-or-no response, and also limits the speed with which rules are passed and the number which are passed, which sounds like a bad thing but is actually quite helpful, since otherwise the number of rules can become immense in a very short space of time and make the game extremely complicated. For proposal 2: For me the fun of this game isn't creating a huge list of meaningless rules, whcih is essentially what the game results in, but in the discussion and debate between the players. The existence of this list provides us with a ready-made forum of discussion, and by using it we can improve upon the game. For instance if you put a proposal up for discussion before making it into a poll on the website, it gives you an opportunity to improve the proposal by incorporating suggestions from other players, or by fixing any problems which other people point out. Even if this proposal doesn;t beocme a rule, this is how I shall put forward my own proposals in future, as I've done here, so that I can take advantage of the benefits of this system even if no one else does. For proposal 3: This is purely for convenience. When we've built up a reasonable number of rules it'll get a bit tricky if we keep having to talk about 'that one about this', or 'the one which so-and-so proposed'. We could equally well number them, but giving them names is more helpful. The way the Romans did it is fairly useful, just giving the name of the person who proposed a law and the basic gist fo what it was about, e.g. 'Fred's law on the corn supply', or 'Julie's law on extortion'. Anyway, whatever. The way I've phrased the proposal leaves it open for the proposer of a rule to put forward a name, and if he or she is prepared to let there be a discussion of the proposal first then anyone who can think of a better name can always suggest it. I'll put none, some or all of these proposals onto the website when we've discussed them, or if no one chooses to discuss them then I'll stick them on the website in a few days. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Mon Nov 27 11:14:23 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 27 Nov 2000 19:14:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 28161 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2000 19:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Nov 2000 19:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Nov 2000 20:04:01 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 140T3S-0006Ms-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:31:06 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140T3M-00034E-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:31:00 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:31:00 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Introductions Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Hi. I'm Jamie, born London, studying at Oxford where I was recently introduced to this game by a drunken Cambridge philosopher at a party devoted to the throwing of paint at the walls of another student's room. It's a good game but it can go on indefinitely. At some time we might want to consider putting in some rules to define some sort of objective or method of winning or something. Apparently a common way to do this is to say 'the first to 100 points wins', and then leave it till later to decide how you actually get points. But anyway, it's early days yet so I shan't actually propose any such rule myself at the moment. I'd also suggest that we all keep a written record of the rules. I believe Rachel's working on putting together a central record on the website, but it's worth keeping your own as well, and perhaps numbering the rules so as to be able to refer to them in future. Anyway, that's enough of me introducing myself. I'd better get on and read the rest of these mails. Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Mon Nov 27 14:27:09 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 27 Nov 2000 22:27:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 1474 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2000 22:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Nov 2000 22:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Nov 2000 22:27:08 -0000 Received: from tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (tot-wl.proxy.aol.com [205.188.199.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA09085 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:26:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC83635D.ipt.aol.com [172.131.99.93]) by tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eARMQt803331 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:26:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A22DFB7.CECECA57@y...> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:27:03 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Lurings References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale You don't consider that you were in any way lured, Jamie? Do you think I would have told you about the list other than to get you to join it, knowing that you would probably want to? (Other than the fact that I tell you everything.) Anyway, yes, it's all your responsibility anyway, really. So anyone who was lured here by me, is by default here because of you... Mary, and others who haven't shown themselves yet, where are you hiding? Rachel. From james.johnston@s... Mon Nov 27 15:57:51 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 27 Nov 2000 23:57:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 11869 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2000 23:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Nov 2000 23:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Nov 2000 23:57:49 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 140Y9c-0004ok-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:57:48 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140Y9f-0008Je-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:57:51 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:57:51 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Lurings Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Ah, you're quite right. I should have said that I wasn't lured *knowingly*. Evidently I was outwitted (or inwitted, perhaps). Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 28 03:00:10 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 11:00:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 31209 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 11:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 11:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4802.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.225) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 12:01:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20001128110009.6846.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4802.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:00:09 GMT Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:00:09 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Comments on Jamie's rule proposals To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= Some interesting thoughts there, Jamie, from probably the most experienced player of this game here... My thoughts: -1- The amendment to the initial rule, which I proposed and put up for a vote, has not yet been voted in, and therefore cannot be repealed. So far, all new rules, including that one, which is still pending, do need to be agreed to by all players. The reason I proposed that amendment, is largely because this is an email forum, and some people still haven't responded to any of our posts/polls. I don't think that we can have a productive and continuing game unless everyone who joins, participates, unless we have a rule allowing for >50% to count as enough to pass the rule/amendment. This could be raised to a higher figure, if people would prefer that, but I do think that we need to have some such rule in place, because we still have heard nothing from them. And we can't introduce a rule to throw off people who don't participate within a given time, or anything like that, unless they also agree to *that*. Which is why, eventually, we need to pass this 'majority rules' rule, in order to make this game function. -2- I agree that proposals should be discussed before/during voting on them. But I also think that the polling feature, which everyone has now taken to using, is useful because it automatically announces any new proposals. My initial idea was that the proposal could first be submitted to the polling system, and then a discussion could follow on from that. Amendments can be made later, to a rule after it has been submitted, if the amendment is agreed to. There is an 'edit' feature to the polls which would allow this. -3- As a mathematician I can't help thinking that a numerical system should also be in place, for simplicity's sake - personally I would suggest numbering rules in the order in which they're passed, and then also giving them names which bear some reference to what the rule is about. Well, those are my thoughts, and now I've got work I really should have been doing for the past 1 1/2 hours to catch up with... Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From celtic_minx@y... Tue Nov 28 06:56:07 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: celtic_minx@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 14:56:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 30682 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 14:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 14:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 14:56:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: celtic_minx@y... Received: from [10.1.2.4] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2000 14:56:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:56:00 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: an absent member Message-ID: <900h20+pib5@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 331 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.252.32.5 From: "celtic minx" Dear Rachel, and members, I apologise for holding up the game. I was curious about this group, after reading your post in lateral puzzles. I am going to delete myself as a member, as I will not have time to make much of a contribution....sorry to have held you all up ;-)....I hope you all have a good game. Best Wishes Julia From james.johnston@s... Tue Nov 28 07:00:22 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 15:00:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 31768 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 15:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 15:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 15:00:21 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 140mF2-0004df-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:00:20 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140mF2-0005fJ-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:00:20 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:00:20 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Comments on Jamie's rule proposals Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > The amendment to the initial rule, which I proposed and put up > for a vote, has not yet been voted in, and therefore cannot be > repealed. So far, all new rules, including that one, which is > still pending, do need to be agreed to by all players. Ah. Thanks for clarifying that - another example, perhaps, of the need for a record of rules. For the time being, since you're probably the longest standing member of this list, would you mind briefly telling us what the rules currently are, after the initial rule? > I don't think that we can have a productive > and continuing game unless everyone who joins, participates, > unless we have a rule allowing for >50% to count as enough to > pass the rule/amendment. I agree that it is difficult, given that we haven't got all the players together in one place, to get proposals passed or blocked decisively. But I don't accept that rule of the majority is the only or even the best answer to the problem. It won't help, for instance, if less than half the players vote, because on that basis there will still be no decision on the proposal. However, since you've pointed out the need for some mechanism for coping with this, I'll propose an alternative rule (which I'll number 4 for ease of reference) to do so: 4. That a time limit be set (to be decided by discussion) at the end of which, if there have been no votes against a proposal, it is considered passed. Off the top of my head I'd suggest seven days as the time limit, but other people may have more considered suggestions. My second proposal (numbered 2, surprisingly), the one about discussion, was in no way an attempt to undermine or devalue the polling system. The game could just as well operate without a rule stating that a discussion is to take place, except that until now there seems to have been little or no discussion of proposals so far. The institution of my second proposed rule would make it compulsory for discussion to take place, if only to the extent of everyone saying 'I have nothing to add to this', before the proposal is put onto the polling system. The feature of the poll which notifies players automatically of new proposals is useful and, admittedly, would be made less useful by my proposed rule, but it seems to me that it would be worth it. Even better would be if there were some method of putting a proposal on the website and thus automatically notifying players of it but still preventing the voting itself from taking place until there has been discussion. If there is a way fo doing that, I shall amend my proposal to accomodate it, but if not, my proposal stands. It would not replace the polling system, and therefore its positive features won't be lost - it will simply give us a more structured procedure for propoing, discussing and voting on proposals. Accomodating your fondness for numbers, I amend my third proposal to read: 3. That when proposing a rule the proposer will give it a short, descriptive name. If the proposed rule is passed, it will be given a number (the next in the numerical sequence of rules starting with one and continuing in positive integers), followed by the name aforementioned. Jamie PS Could someone forward me a copy of the mail I sent containing my first three proposals? because I haven't kept a copy and I realise now I'm going to need one if I want to put them on the polling system. Thanks. From james.johnston@s... Tue Nov 28 09:47:38 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 17:47:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 97525 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 17:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 17:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 17:47:37 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 140oqu-0000Wm-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:47:36 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140oqu-0005D9-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:47:36 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:47:36 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Apology; appeal Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Just having seen my last mail reappear in my inbox I see that I forgot to change the subject line to keep it relevant - sorry all. It should have been called something like 'reply to Rachel's comments'. By the way, can I urge anyone still in the game to vote, when it comes to it, on my fourth proposal, set out in the mail mentioned above, which went something like this: 4. That a time limit be set (to be decided by discussion amongst the players) at the end of which a proposed rule will be passed if no votes have been made against it. It's not up for voting yet, but will eb after discussion, unless I'm persuaded to retract it. If you just make the effort to pass this rule, you'll never have to vote for anything else again if you don't want! Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Nov 28 11:08:55 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 19:08:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 59551 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 20:10:00 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 140q7Z-0003zS-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:08:53 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 140q7Y-00006n-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:08:52 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:08:52 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Fourth proposal withdrawn Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Having had a look at the website I see that Chris has already put forward a proposal for a ten-day time limit, so I'll withdraw my proposal (number 4) which said much the same thing, and vote for that. Incidentally, how many players have we at the moment? The maximum number of votes on any of the polls seems to be 8. Will something automatically inform us when all the votes on a proposal are in? If not, how do we know when a rule has been passed? Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 28 11:09:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 19:09:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 2005 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 19:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 19:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.160) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 19:09:57 -0000 Received: from cm-ta4.proxy.aol.com (cm-ta4.proxy.aol.com [152.163.205.44]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA23994 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC955C11.ipt.aol.com [172.149.92.17]) by cm-ta4.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eASJ6XZ12721 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:06:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A2402DD.3ECE949A@y...> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:09:17 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: On Jamie's appeal References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale James Johnston wrote: > > 4. That a time limit be set (to be decided by discussion amongst the > players) at the end of which a proposed rule will be passed if no > votes have been made against it. > > It's not up for voting yet, but will eb after discussion, unless I'm > persuaded to retract it. > > If you just make the effort to pass this rule, you'll never have to > vote for anything else again if you don't want! And if this rule is passed, I may be persuaded to retract or at least vote against (and hence destroy) my own proposal on majorities... Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 28 11:22:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 19:22:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 29168 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 19:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 19:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.160) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 19:22:56 -0000 Received: from cm-ta4.proxy.aol.com (cm-ta4.proxy.aol.com [152.163.205.44]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA05000 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC955C11.ipt.aol.com [172.149.92.17]) by cm-ta4.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eASJFsZ12166 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:15:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A24050F.F137B99B@y...> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:18:39 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: The Rules Thus Far References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale There is only one rule so far, and that is the initial rule, since we haven't had everyone voting on any possible addition or amendment yet. So the one rule is as described on the site. Rachel. From chris_harris2@l... Tue Nov 28 13:29:10 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 21:29:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 58565 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 21:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 21:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 21:28:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: chris_harris2@l... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2000 21:28:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:28:44 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: My proposals so far, Message-ID: <90182c+tlv3@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 205 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 213.1.56.176 From: chris_harris2@l... As you may be able to see, on my proposals so far I have put a time limit on each of them, as there is no rules at the moment and considering you need a 100% agreement, should i take the time limit of? From chris_harris2@l... Tue Nov 28 13:49:17 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 21:49:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 904 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 21:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 21:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 22:49:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: chris_harris2@l... Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2000 21:47:59 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:47:49 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: My proposals so far, Message-ID: <901965+9pqd@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <90182c+tlv3@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 348 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 213.1.56.176 From: chris_harris2@l... --- In Pure_Nomic@egroups.com, chris_harris2@l... wrote: > As you may be able to see, on my proposals so far I have put a time > limit on each of them, as there is no rules at the moment and > considering you need a 100% agreement, should i take the time limit > of? Hey all, sorry for the poor grammer, I was in a rush, me dinner was ready! From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 28 15:15:40 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 23:15:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 40278 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 23:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 23:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 23:15:16 -0000 Received: from tot-tm.proxy.aol.com (tot-tm.proxy.aol.com [152.163.197.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id SAA17680 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:14:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC959D7C.ipt.aol.com [172.149.157.124]) by tot-tm.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eASNEtC02608 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:14:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A243C77.803918C0@y...> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:15:03 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Time limits on current proposals References: <90182c+tlv3@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale I believe we are waiting for two more votes on the time limit idea, but hopefully they should be passed quite soon. Leave them for now. Any polls which have had any votes against them, can be considered 'failed' anyway, I suppose, under the current rules, and should probably be closed on that basis. If you take the time limits off, we'll have to restart the polling again for those proposals. I think we should leave it, and hassle those who haven't voted to pass the proposal for time limits, as this seems to be the most widely agreed method of making the voting system feasible (since Jamie vetoed my majority proposal). Rachel. From punkbass_2000@y... Tue Nov 28 15:44:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 28 Nov 2000 23:44:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 15960 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2000 23:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2000 23:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4403.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Nov 2000 23:44:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20001128234435.4426.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.158.225] by web4403.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:44:35 PST Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:44:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits on current proposals To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick >Any > polls which have had any votes against them, can be > considered 'failed' > anyway, I suppose, under the current rules, and > should probably be > closed on that basis. No they shouldn't. They can be discussed. One is allowed to change ones vote at any time. Perhaps some will be persuaded. =====

"The life which is unexamined is not worth living"

-Plato

 

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From wandrer@w... Wed Nov 29 04:05:36 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 12:05:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 46262 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 12:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 12:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta02-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 13:06:41 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta02-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1753790c58305fd3f286395c4a42fdc7) with SMTP id <20001129120155.MMFK4999.amsmta02-svc@marcel> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:01:55 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c059fc$c30fd800$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <90182c+tlv3@eGroups.com> <3A243C77.803918C0@y...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits on current proposals Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:06:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" > I believe we are waiting for two more votes on the time limit idea, but > hopefully they should be passed quite soon. I believe the website says we have 7 members. 7 members have voted in favour of the time limit. I guess we can consider it passed! Yours believingly, Stefan. --- Just use the power of your Mind... From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 29 04:23:50 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 12:23:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 88532 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 12:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 12:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4803.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.245) by mta2 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 12:23:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20001129122349.10929.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4803.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:23:49 GMT Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:23:49 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits on current proposals To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= >I believe the website says we have 7 members. 7 members have >voted in favour >of the time limit. I guess we can consider it passed! Last time I looked, there were nine. But now, yes, there are seven. Well done, everyone, we've passed our first rule! Champagne all round... I'll add it to the list, but just for ease of future reference, would anyone like to give it a name? It'll be rule 2, anyway... Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 29 04:25:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 91995 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 12:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 12:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta2 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 12:25:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.33] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2000 12:25:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 31500 invoked by uid 65534); 29 Nov 2000 12:25:17 -0000 Date: 29 Nov 2000 12:25:17 -0000 Message-ID: <975500717.31499@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that all votes should have a ten day time limit CHOICES AND RESULTS - Good idea :-), 7 votes, 100.00% - Bad idea :-(, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Good idea :-) - racheledugdale@y... - chris_harris2@l... - punkbass_2000@y... - wandrer@w... - Arasine@n... - james.johnston@s... - russellp@m... - Bad idea :-( For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 29 05:36:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 13:36:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 50158 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 13:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 13:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 13:36:57 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1417Pq-0000qV-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:36:54 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1417Pq-00078c-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:36:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:36:54 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limit proposal Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston I've voted for Chris' time-limit proposal, as has everyone else who's voted at all, so unless anyone votes no or fails to vote I guess that will pass, but thinking about it it occurs to me that there's a possible problem with it: it needs clarifying *what* happens to a proposal if not everyone votes for or against it. What I initially thought was that we could say that if there were no 'no' votes within the time limit, the proposal should be passed. But the problem with this is that it biases the process in favour of the proposer - for example, if a player goes on holiday or something, and while they're away a proposal is passed which they might have had a serious objection to, then their view has been overruled through no fault of their own. So it might be fairer to say that if there are no 'yes' votes for a proposal within the time-limit, then it is blocked - so that if anyone fails to vote it counts as a 'no' vote. This seems to me fairer, and more in the spirit of the first rule, but the problem is that it means no rules can ever get passed if any of the players are on holiday or just too lazy to vote. So what do people think? Should we go for the first option, or the second? Or is there another option? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 29 05:41:33 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 13:41:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 63216 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 13:41:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 13:41:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 14:42:38 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1417UK-0004rI-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:41:32 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1417UJ-0007D4-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:41:31 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:41:31 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits on current proposals Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > >Any > > polls which have had any votes against them, can be > > considered 'failed' > > anyway, I suppose, under the current rules, and > > should probably be > > closed on that basis. > > No they shouldn't. They can be discussed. One is > allowed to change ones vote at any time. Perhaps some > will be persuaded. I agree in principle, but there's a problem with this - if we consider polls always open and votes always subject to change, then we can never close any polls and therefore never have any rules. The only solution to this would be to have a time-limit rule, but obviously we can't pass a time-limit rule if polls are never closed. Perhaps what we should say for the time being is that polls should be considered closed only when all players have voted, either way. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 29 05:42:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 13:42:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 35111 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 13:42:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 13:42:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 14:43:59 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1417Vc-0004u1-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:42:52 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1417Vb-0007EU-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:42:51 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:42:51 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits on current proposals Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > > I believe we are waiting for two more votes on the time limit idea, but > > hopefully they should be passed quite soon. > > I believe the website says we have 7 members. 7 members have voted in favour > of the time limit. I guess we can consider it passed! Well it now has 8 votes in favour of it, counting mine, so there must be at least 8 players, and there may be more. Does anyone know how many players there actually are? And is there any facility on the polling feature which can tell us when everyone has voted? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 29 05:45:53 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 13:45:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 44476 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 13:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 13:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 13:45:51 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 1417YU-0001Mw-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:45:50 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1417YU-0007Hm-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:45:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:45:50 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rule naming Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > I'll add it to the list, but just for ease of future reference, > would anyone like to give it a name? It'll be rule 2, anyway... Since the proposal hasn't been passed about giving rules names, and in fact since it hasn;t even been put up for voting, I would suggest that giving rules names at this stage can only be unofficiaal, and should probably be avoided so as to avoid confusion. If and when we pass the rule about names, we can make it retrospective if we like, and then we can give old rules new names. Would anyone like me to make my proposed rule-naming rule retrospective, or are we happy for the first and second rules to be known as rules 1 and 2 only? Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 29 06:02:23 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 14:02:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 68299 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 14:02:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 14:02:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4801.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.199) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 15:03:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20001129140220.17854.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4801.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:02:20 GMT Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:02:20 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits on current proposals To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= >I agree in principle, but there's a problem with this - if we >consider polls always open and votes always subject to change, >then we can never close any polls and therefore never have any >rules. The only solution to this would be to have a time-limit >rule, but obviously we can't pass a time-limit rule if polls >are never closed. Perhaps what we should say for the time being >is that polls should be considered closed only when all players >have voted, either way. Well, now we've passed the time limits rule, by way of everyone having voted in favour. This means that polls will now close after ten days. I'll close the current ones ten days after they were set up - so 2nd/3rd December in most cases. The question is, though, as has been correctly pointed out - what do we do with results which aren't 100% voted on, and 100% agreed, at the end of that time limit. Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 29 06:03:38 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 14:03:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 34621 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 14:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 14:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4802.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.225) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 14:03:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20001129140337.10260.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4802.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:03:37 GMT Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:03:37 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rule naming To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= >Would anyone like me to make my proposed rule-naming rule >retrospective, or are we happy for the first and second rules >to be known as rules 1 and 2 only? I would like it to be retrospective please. :-) Although I can't think of a better name for the initial rule than 'the initial rule'... Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 29 06:08:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 14:08:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 73864 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 14:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 14:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4805.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.247) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 15:10:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20001129140856.26987.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4805.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:08:56 GMT Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:08:56 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Members To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= >Well it now has 8 votes in favour of it, counting mine, so >there must be at least 8 players, and there may be more. Does >anyone know how many players there actually are? And is there >any facility on the polling feature which can tell us when >everyone has voted? There are 7 members now. Definitely. One of the polls has had 8 votes, because Mary voted in favour of my >50% proposal before she left. The only way of telling whether everyone has voted, is to look at how many members there are, and how many people have voted. Since everyone has now voted on the time limits rule, it was passed, and I closed the poll. Since we had no other rules for closing polls at that time... Jamie, you might also like to note that I've now joined you in voting against my own proposal now that a time limits rule has been passed. Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 29 12:05:21 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 20:05:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 37551 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 20:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 20:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 20:05:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: racheledugdale@y... Received: from [10.1.4.69] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2000 20:05:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:05:16 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Time limit proposal Message-ID: <903nhs+ok0t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 967 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 172.162.132.6 From: "Rachel Dugdale" I don't think it biases it towards the proposer so much as it biases it against anyone who goes away, without doing something like nominating a proxy whom they trust to represent their views accurately. Because although someone can't vote on your behalf, they could explain to the group, and it's possible (at least with a group of seven!) that we could allow for mitigating circumstances. And if you were the one entrusted, and thought that the other person was likely to vote against, you could always use your own vote in that way since it would have the same net effect (of vetoing the proposal). It would at least be helpful if people said when they're going on holiday, etc, anyway. But I certainly think that one should have to make the effort to stop a rule, rather than it automatically stopping if someone doesn't bother to vote, due to absence, laziness, whatever. If I think of an alternative which is better, I'll let you know. Rachel. From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 29 12:45:37 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 20:45:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 1814 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 20:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 20:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 21:46:37 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141E6d-0000E8-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:45:31 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141E6d-0007dd-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:45:31 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:45:31 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Members Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Jamie, you might also like to note that I've now joined you in > voting against my own proposal now that a time limits rule has > been passed. Thank you. I think you've done the right thing. Hopefully as the game progresses you'll see why I think the unanimity condition is a good one, but if not you can always propose your amendment again. Jamie From chris_harris2@l... Wed Nov 29 13:14:53 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 21:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 61558 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 21:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 21:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 22:15:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: chris_harris2@l... Received: from [10.1.2.91] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2000 21:14:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:14:43 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Voting and Voters Message-ID: <903rk3+i9n0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 847 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 213.1.46.188 From: chris_harris2@l... >From the beginning I have assumed that if not everyone votes then the proposal is calculated from the people that have actually voted for it. This features in the polling system from egroups. Would this not be a good idea. eg if after 10 days only me rachel and james voted, two voted yes and one voted no then the two would get it as it is past the 50% mark. So is it right that from now on proposals should not be closed until the 10 day period, even if everyone has voted? People are allowed to change their mind during this time aren't they? Or are you not allowed to change your mind? Should there be a rule for this, but there is also no way of telling if someone has changed their mind, is there? As I have found out from the first part of this message, in this game you can assume nothing, only what is in the rules Chris 8-) From wandrer@w... Wed Nov 29 13:55:28 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 21:55:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 95905 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 21:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 21:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 21:55:25 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATLtOn17957 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:55:24 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:55:24 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DB2@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Time limit proposal Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:55:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." I think the most logical thing is the "no 'no'"-system. The other option would simply rule out the effect this rule was meantto have on decision-making! And it was meant to make it possible to pass a rule without everyone voting in the first place.... Yours far-from-lazily, Stefan. --- Just use the power of your Mind.... > -----Original Message----- > From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 13:37 > To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Time limit proposal > > > I've voted for Chris' time-limit proposal, as has everyone > else who's voted at all, so unless anyone votes no or fails > to vote I guess that will pass, but thinking about it it > occurs to me that there's a possible problem with it: it > needs clarifying *what* happens to a proposal if not everyone > votes for or against it. > > What I initially thought was that we could say that if there > were no 'no' votes within the time limit, the proposal should > be passed. But the problem with this is that it biases the > process in favour of the proposer - for example, if a player > goes on holiday or something, and while they're away a > proposal is passed which they might have had a serious > objection to, then their view has been overruled through no > fault of their own. > > So it might be fairer to say that if there are no 'yes' votes > for a proposal within the time-limit, then it is blocked - so > that if anyone fails to vote it counts as a 'no' vote. This > seems to me fairer, and more in the spirit of the first rule, > but the problem is that it means no rules can ever get passed > if any of the players are on holiday or just too lazy to vote. > > So what do people think? Should we go for the first option, > or the second? Or is there another option? > > Jamie > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > -------------------------~-~> > eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/_/_/975505018/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From wandrer@w... Wed Nov 29 14:02:56 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 29 Nov 2000 22:02:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 62160 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 22:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 22:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 22:02:55 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATM2rn18887 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:02:53 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:02:53 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DB3@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rule naming Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:02:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." Doesn't the second rule more or less replace the first rule? So the first rule is no longer valid, and there is no more need to mention it, imho. On second thought, more or less is more less than more, because it doesn't say anything about the outcome of the voting. So there needs to be a real replacement for the first rule, some kind of "no 'no'"-thing, preferably. yours initially[1], Stefan. [1] It's sometimes just as hard to make up these words as it is to make up rule names, I guess... --- Just use the power of your Mind.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Rachel E Dugdale [mailto:racheledugdale@y...] > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 15:04 > To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rule naming > > > >Would anyone like me to make my proposed rule-naming rule > >retrospective, or are we happy for the first and second rules > >to be known as rules 1 and 2 only? > > I would like it to be retrospective please. :-) Although I > can't think of a better name for the initial rule than 'the > initial rule'... > > Rachel. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > -------------------------~-~> > eGroups eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/975506618/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Wed Nov 29 18:11:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 823 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 02:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 02:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 03:12:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.52] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 02:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 25611 invoked by uid 7800); 30 Nov 2000 02:11:20 -0000 Date: 30 Nov 2000 02:11:20 -0000 Message-ID: <975550280.5905@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I would like to know what direction everyone would like this game to go. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Serious, 0 votes, 0.00% - Humourous, 3 votes, 50.00% - Abstract, 2 votes, 33.33% - Challenging, 1 votes, 16.67% - Other , 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Serious - Humourous - Arasine@n... - wandrer@w... - chris_harris2@l... - Abstract - racheledugdale@y... - punkbass_2000@y... - Challenging - russellp@m... - Other For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 30 05:24:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 13:24:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 85891 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 13:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 13:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 14:26:02 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141Thn-0001Il-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:24:55 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141Thn-0000NA-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:24:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:24:55 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Voting and Voters Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > From the beginning I have assumed that if not everyone votes then the > proposal is calculated from the people that have actually voted for > it. This features in the polling system from egroups. Would this > not be a good idea. > > eg > if after 10 days only me rachel and james voted, two voted yes and > one voted no then the two would get it as it is past the 50% mark. Except that no majority rule has been passed, so in order for a proposal to become a rule it needs to be voted for by *all* players. Which still leaves us with the question of whether a vote which not cast counts as a yes vote or a no vote. > So is it right that from now on proposals should not be closed until > the 10 day period, even if everyone has voted? > People are allowed to change their mind during this time aren't they? > Or are you not allowed to change your mind? > Should there be a rule for this, but there is also no way of telling > if someone has changed their mind, is there? It seems to me that currently there's no rule stating that polls should be closed at any time before the ten days are up, nor is there any rule forbidding people to change their votes before the poll closes, so unless or until someone passes either of those rules, changing one's mind is fine, and polls remain open until the ten days are up. > As I have found out from the first part of this message, in this game > you can assume nothing, only what is in the rules Absolutely. Which is one one has to be very careful about the wording of proposals. Which is why I should have kept a copy of mine... hmm... Jamie From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 30 05:28:24 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 13:28:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 30878 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 13:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 13:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 13:28:23 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141Tl8-0005CU-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:28:22 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141Tl8-0000Pn-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:28:22 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:28:22 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rule naming Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Doesn't the second rule more or less replace the first rule? So the first > rule is no longer valid, and there is no more need to mention it, imho. > > On second thought, more or less is more less than more, because it doesn't > say anything about the outcome of the voting. So there needs to be a real > replacement for the first rule, some kind of "no 'no'"-thing, preferably. I must absolutely disagree with both these notions, I'm afraid. There's no need at all to change, replace or eliminate the initial rule. The second rule is simply a clarification of procedure. I'm not sure which option you mean by a "no 'no'", but I imagine you mean the suggestion that if there are no votes against a given proposal within the time limit, it's considered as passed. Since the prevailing opinion seems to be that this is the better of the two options, I'll put it forward as a proposal. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 30 05:36:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 90427 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 13:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 13:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mu.egroups.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 14:37:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.100] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 13:36:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 6066 invoked by uid 65534); 30 Nov 2000 13:36:34 -0000 Date: 30 Nov 2000 13:36:34 -0000 Message-ID: <975591394.6060@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: As part of the proposal of a rule, the proposer must suggest a short, descriptive name for the rule they are proposing, which will become the name of that rule if the rule is passed. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 30 05:37:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21942 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 13:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 13:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 13:37:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.100] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 13:37:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 6289 invoked by uid 65534); 30 Nov 2000 13:37:45 -0000 Date: 30 Nov 2000 13:37:45 -0000 Message-ID: <975591465.6282@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 30 05:44:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 13:44:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 44006 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 13:44:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 13:44:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 13:44:41 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141U0u-0005bR-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:44:40 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141U0u-0000bs-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:44:40 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:44:40 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New Proposals Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Just to inform everyone (as no doubt the system will do automatically anyway) that I've put two proposals up on the website for voting: 1. As part of the proposal of a rule, the proposer must suggest a short, descriptive name for the rule they are proposing, which will become the name of that rule if the rule is passed. This rule is also to be applied retrospectively. (In the end I chose not to include a clause about numbering, because there's nothing to stop us numbering the rules as well, and since we already are doing I didn't feel a rule making it compulsory was necessary. But if anyone feels that it is, do propose one) 2. If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. Voting on both these proposals closes on the 9th, so everyone *please* vote, because until we pass proposal number 2 we still have to have *everyone's* vote in order to pass a new rule. Thanks Jamie From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 30 06:21:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95710 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 14:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 14:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 14:21:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.51] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2000 14:21:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 33769 invoked by uid 65534); 30 Nov 2000 14:21:45 -0000 Date: 30 Nov 2000 14:21:45 -0000 Message-ID: <975594105.33768@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that whatever the outcome of the game will eventually be, it will not be valid unless all proposals ever proposed are available for all contestants at that point, to examine them that is. CHOICES AND RESULTS - yes, that's a good rule!, 2 votes, 33.33% - no, it will spoil the game.., 4 votes, 66.67% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From wandrer@w... Thu Nov 30 06:31:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 14:31:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 27465 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 14:31:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 14:31:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta02-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 14:31:42 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta02-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1753790c58305fd3f286395c4a42fdc7) with SMTP id <20001130142800.VEMN4999.amsmta02-svc@marcel> for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:28:00 +0100 Message-ID: <005501c05ada$58610ea0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <975591465.6282@egroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:32:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" Is this a new rule, or a replacement for the first rule, or just a change to the first rule? I believe that if it's a new rule, we would end up with 2 contradictory rules: 1) All changes must be agreed to by all players 2) No votes against it would mean a rule is passed. So I would like to see this rule formulated differently: "If a player does not vote against a rule within the time limit, this implies that he is in favour of it. If no-one has voted within the time limit, the rule shall be discarded." If you re-formulate it in this or a similar way, I will vote in favour of it. Stefan Just use the power of your Mind... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 2:37 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic > group: > > > If by the end of the time-limit for a > given proposal there have been no votes > against said proposal, it is considered > passed. > > o Yes > o No > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > From wandrer@w... Thu Nov 30 13:41:24 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 21:41:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5466 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 21:41:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 21:41:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 21:41:12 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAULfBn02074 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:41:11 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:41:11 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DB4@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:41:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." This one hasn't passed. I guess that means we will have to keep our own record of the rules.... Stefan. --- Just use the power of your Mind.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@egroups.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 15:22 > To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > > > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: I propose that whatever the outcome of > the game will eventually be, it will > not be valid unless all proposals ever > proposed are available for all > contestants at that point, to examine > them that is. > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - yes, that's a good rule!, 2 votes, 33.33% > - no, it will spoil the game.., 4 votes, 66.67% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with eGroups, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > -------------------------~-~> > eGroups eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/975594117/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > > > > From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 30 14:06:19 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 22:06:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 84006 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 22:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 22:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 23:07:09 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 141bq6-0001RQ-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:06:02 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141bq7-00060y-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:06:03 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:06:03 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Is this a new rule, or a replacement for the first rule, or just a change to > the first rule? I believe that if it's a new rule, we would end up with 2 > contradictory rules: > > 1) All changes must be agreed to by all players > 2) No votes against it would mean a rule is passed. > > So I would like to see this rule formulated differently: > "If a player does not vote against a rule within the time limit, this > implies that he is in favour of it. If no-one has voted within the time > limit, the rule shall be discarded The way you've rephrased the rule doesn't make any actual difference. So if you're saying you'll vote for it if it's phrased your way but not if it's phrased as currently, then of course I'd be happy to change it, because it doesn;t make a difference, but I hope to save myself the effort by explaining why it's the same thing: 'If there are no votes against a proposal, then it is considered passed'. This means that non-votes or abstentions count as votes in favour, because the stress is on the votes *against*. Basically what it amounts to is that any proposal will be passed unless someone actually vetoes it. This does, you're correct, modify the initial rule somewhat. Your version does the same, however, because to say that anyone who fails to vote is agreeing to the proposal is not the same as them actually agreeing to it. If someone didn't agree with a proposal but doesn;t vote, it's all very well to say that by not voting they agreed to it, but the fact is that they didn't and still don't agree. So either way rule 1 is modified. It's important to realise about this game that any new rule, if it contradicts any part of a previous rule, the new rule is followed. This is the standard way that legal systems operate, but if this needs to be clarified in respect of this game then perhaps we should put it up as a rule. At the moment, however, it seems to me that we are, or if we aren;t then we should be, operating on the basis that in case of conflict, the more recent rule overrides the older. Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Thu Nov 30 14:20:10 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 22:20:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 13644 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 22:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 22:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 23:20:38 -0000 Received: from tot-wj.proxy.aol.com (tot-wj.proxy.aol.com [205.188.198.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA23462 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:19:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC86F7C6.ipt.aol.com [172.134.247.198]) by tot-wj.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eAUMJ6x15013 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:19:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A26B5AE.423D273C@y...> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:16:46 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Amendment to Jamie's important proposal References: <975591465.6282@egroups.com> <005501c05ada$58610ea0$a15553d4@c...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale Stefan, I agree, that's a good point. Although perhaps 'shall be taken to mean' or similar, rather than just 'implies', which is in itself a little ambiguous. Jamie, do you want to rephrase? Rachel. From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 30 14:22:18 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 22:22:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 1810 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 22:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 22:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 22:22:13 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141c5k-0003Bx-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:22:12 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141c5l-00066Q-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:22:13 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:22:13 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Rachel's proposal about use of polling feature Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Rachel's proposal was: "I propose that henceforwards the polling feature be used only for the proposal of rule amendments, so that it is easy to see all of these at once without the confusion of other polls, and that other issues be discussed on the list." I have just voted against this, and I feel I should explain, for clarity, that I did so not because I disagree with the sentiment, but because the wording of the proposal unfortunately means that if it were passed we'd have a problem. The problem being the use of "rule amendments" rather than "rules or rule amendments". At the moment, if you think about it, the proposal as it stands means that we wouldn;t be able to use the polling feature for proposing new rules, only amendments to old rules. So if we could adjust the phrasing, I'll gladly put my vote to it. Unless I;ve got it completely wrong and Rachel meant exactly what she said, in which case I'm surprised so many people were in favour... Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Thu Nov 30 14:35:02 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 30 Nov 2000 22:35:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 64437 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2000 22:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2000 22:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Nov 2000 22:35:01 -0000 Received: from tot-we.proxy.aol.com (tot-we.proxy.aol.com [205.188.195.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA10200 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:34:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC8F914F.ipt.aol.com [172.143.145.79]) by tot-we.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eAUMYhJ13238 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:34:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A26D4BE.4FD7A6CC@y...> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:29:18 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Rachel's proposal about use of polling feature References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale > I have just voted against this, and I feel I should explain, for >clarity, that I did so not because I disagree with the sentiment, but >because the wording of the proposal unfortunately means that if it were >passed we'd have a problem. The problem being the use of "rule >amendments" rather than "rules or rule amendments". At the moment, if >you think about it, the proposal as it stands means that we wouldn;t be >able to use the polling feature for proposing new rules, only amendments >to old rules. So if we could adjust the phrasing, I'll gladly put my >vote to it. Unless I;ve got it completely wrong and Rachel meant exactly >what she said, in which case I'm surprised so many people were in >favour... Nope, what I meant was amendments. To the rules. To the *set* of rules. But if you think it would be clearer for me to rephrase it, I will do, although unfortunately rephrasing means that you have to restart all of the voting procedures. So we could all just agree now that I'll rephrase it when I add it to the actual rules. Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Nov 30 19:38:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31805 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 03:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 03:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 04:38:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.94] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2000 03:37:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 96140 invoked by uid 65534); 1 Dec 2000 03:37:31 -0000 Date: 1 Dec 2000 03:37:31 -0000 Message-ID: <975641851.96137@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: I propose that all new polls cannot start "I propose". Just for a laugh. o Okay.... o Er. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From james.johnston@s... Fri Dec 01 03:50:25 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 11:50:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 24314 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 11:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 11:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 12:51:29 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141ohr-0005MA-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 01 Dec 2000 11:50:23 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141oht-0000qM-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:50:25 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 11:50:25 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Rachel's polling proposal; New proposal for writing up of rules Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Nope, what I meant was amendments. To the rules. To the *set* of > rules. But if you think it would be clearer for me to rephrase it, I > will do, although unfortunately rephrasing means that you have to > restart all of the voting procedures. So we could all just agree now > that I'll rephrase it when I add it to the actual rules. I'm afraid I think the distinction does need to be made between amendments and rules. If you could add 'and rules' to the current phrasing when you write it up, that would be fine. This raises another question, which is the writing up of new rules. I think this needs to be systematised a bit, for example to stop (after this particular instance) the wording of a proposal changing when it's written up as a rule. So here's my proposal: - One player must be designated clerk, whose duty it is to record each new rule and amendment exactly as proposed, and to inform all players when a new rule or amendment has been passed. - This will mean that we'll have to be more careful about how we word our proposals, but that's okay because it will encourage people to discuss the wording of a new proposal before voting on it. For example words like 'should' aren't very useful for rules. Exactly how we decide who is designated clerk (and if anyone would prefer the job to have a different name other than clerk, I'd be happy to alter it) I'll leave open for the moment, but if we want we can specify in the rule how the clerk is to be chosen. Otherwise we can always add another rule later. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Fri Dec 01 04:01:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 12:01:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 25268 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 12:01:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 12:01:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 12:01:41 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141osm-0000jJ-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:01:40 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141osk-0000xw-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:01:38 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:01:38 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > I propose that all new polls cannot > start "I propose". Just for a laugh. Absolutely! And not just for a laugh, either - it's important that they don't start with 'I propose', because if they do, then when they become rules we'll have a load of rules saying that people propose things, but not actually making anything compulsory. It'll just be complulsory that those people propose such-and-such. Can we try in future just to start proposals with 'this must happy', or 'people must do this', or whatever. Of course the problem is that if this rule gets passed it won't make it forbidden to begin proposals with 'I propose', it will just make it compulsory for whoever proposed this to propose that all news polls cannot start 'I propose'. Oh well. Jamie From wandrer@w... Fri Dec 01 05:09:15 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 13:09:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 43429 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 13:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 13:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta06-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 13:09:14 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta06-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1753790c58305fd3f286395c4a42fdc7) with SMTP id <20001201131014.HAUK14770.amsmta06-svc@marcel> for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:10:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c05b97$fe3bdfe0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: Subject: Contradicting rules (was: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:09:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" >the more recent rule overrides the older. Ah, if that is the case (as will be when it is made into a rule), it is ok with me! Stefan. Just use the power of your Mind... From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Fri Dec 01 05:16:42 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 56133 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 13:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 13:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 13:16:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.36] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2000 13:16:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 33642 invoked by uid 65534); 1 Dec 2000 13:16:38 -0000 Date: 1 Dec 2000 13:16:38 -0000 Message-ID: <975676598.33640@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: Should two or more rules contradict each other, the newest rule will be the only one that's valid. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From russellp@m... Fri Dec 01 07:04:59 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: russellp@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 15:04:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 84009 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 15:03:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 15:03:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO poseidon.tcp.net.uk) (195.80.0.224) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 15:03:58 -0000 Received: from [192.0.0.135] (en1-202.du.tcp.co.uk [195.80.1.202]) by poseidon.tcp.net.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26864 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:03:45 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 15:03:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rachel's polling proposal; New proposal for writing up of rules To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: Russell Phillippe on 1/12/00 10:50 am, James Johnston at james.johnston@s... wrote: >> Nope, what I meant was amendments. To the rules. To the *set* of >> rules. But if you think it would be clearer for me to rephrase it, I >> will do, although unfortunately rephrasing means that you have to >> restart all of the voting procedures. So we could all just agree now >> that I'll rephrase it when I add it to the actual rules. > > I'm afraid I think the distinction does need to be made between amendments and > rules. If you could add 'and rules' to the current phrasing when you write it > up, that would be fine. > > This raises another question, which is the writing up of new rules. I think > this needs to be systematised a bit, for example to stop (after this > particular instance) the wording of a proposal changing when it's written up > as a rule. So here's my proposal: > > - One player must be designated clerk, whose duty it is to record each new > rule and amendment exactly as proposed, and to inform all players when a new > rule or amendment has been passed. - > > This will mean that we'll have to be more careful about how we word our > proposals, but that's okay because it will encourage people to discuss the > wording of a new proposal before voting on it. For example words like 'should' > aren't very useful for rules. Exactly how we decide who is designated clerk > (and if anyone would prefer the job to have a different name other than clerk, > I'd be happy to alter it) I'll leave open for the moment, but if we want we > can specify in the rule how the clerk is to be chosen. Otherwise we can always > add another rule later. > > Jamie > > > > > You're taking this thing a bit too seriously and you're a bit too picky about things if you don't mind me saying so - can't we just make it a bit of fun? -- You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive. From james.johnston@s... Fri Dec 01 11:06:12 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 19:06:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 19769 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 19:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 19:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 20:06:50 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141vV9-0002kW-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:05:43 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141vV9-0006LK-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:05:43 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:05:43 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Contradicting rules (was: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic) Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > >the more recent rule overrides the older. > > Ah, if that is the case (as will be when it is made into a rule), it is ok > with me! Do you want me to propose this as a rule, then, or shall we take it as read? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Fri Dec 01 11:12:20 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 19:12:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 77061 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 19:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 19:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 19:12:08 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141vbK-0004b0-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:12:06 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141vbK-0006Nc-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:12:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:12:06 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Contradicting rules Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Should two or more rules contradict > each other, the newest rule will be the > only one that's valid. No! Argh! Sorry, I seem to have failed abjectly to make myself clear. What I was trying to say was that where any two rules conflict in reference to a given situation or question, it is the more recent rule which is to be considered the more important. But that doesn't mean the old rule becomes entirely invalid. If that were the case then the whole first rule would become invalid if any section of it were contradicted by another rule. Can we possibly rephrase this proposal something like: "Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s)." This way we have the same thing but without old rules suddenly having to be deleted from the game. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Fri Dec 01 11:27:15 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 19:27:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 88965 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 141vpN-0005lp-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:26:37 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 141vpM-0006TY-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:26:36 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 19:26:36 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Too seriously? Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > You're taking this thing a bit too seriously and you're a bit too picky > about things if you don't mind me saying so - can't we just make it a bit of > fun? I'm having fun. I'm sorry if I've been stopping anyone else doing so - that's never been my intention. The thing about this game is that it's all about the rules. That is the game. And I'm afraid rules, in order to work, have to worded correctly, otherwise they don't have any effect. That's why all lawyers are pedants. They have to be. In my view there really isn't any way to play this game without at least one person, and preferably everyone, being picky enough to spot when a rule isn't going to work. I agree that at the moment the game's coming across a bit seriously. That's basically because it's still at the stage when the ground rules are being sorted out, and we haven;t got to the stage of actually working out where the game is heading. So I'm in favour of people putting forward some more fun or lighthearted proposals. I liked the idea of sorting people into two groups (sorry, I've forgotten whose that was), but that proposal's been voted out. And playing by e-mail makes everything a lot slower of course: if we'd all been in the same room we'd have taken about half an hour to sort out these boring bits and get on to the next stage. But I'm confident that as soon as we've got the current batch of proposals out fo the way we can get on with the game, whatever that turns out to be. So yes, we can make it a bit of fun. That's the point of the game - we can make it whatever we like. At the moment I'm just trying to help make it work without breaking down, so that we can move on to making it fun. Jamie From wandrer@w... Fri Dec 01 13:58:21 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 21:58:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 89163 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 21:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 21:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta01-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 22:59:20 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta01-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1753790c58305fd3f286395c4a42fdc7) with SMTP id <20001201215359.MDQN29661.amsmta01-svc@marcel> for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:53:59 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c05be1$de24d960$a15553d4@c...> To: References: Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Contradicting rules Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:58:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" Ok, that is what I meant, and I was not too happy about the way I put it. But please, remember that English is not my first language.... yours foreignly, Stefan. Just use the power of your Mind... ----- Original Message ----- From: James Johnston To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:12 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Contradicting rules > > Should two or more rules contradict > > each other, the newest rule will be the > > only one that's valid. > > No! Argh! Sorry, I seem to have failed abjectly to make myself clear. What I was trying to say was that where any two rules conflict in reference to a given situation or question, it is the more recent rule which is to be considered the more important. But that doesn't mean the old rule becomes entirely invalid. If that were the case then the whole first rule would become invalid if any section of it were contradicted by another rule. Can we possibly rephrase this proposal something like: > > "Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s)." > > This way we have the same thing but without old rules suddenly having to be deleted from the game. > > Jamie > > > > > > From racheledugdale@y... Fri Dec 01 14:00:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 22:00:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 54519 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 22:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 22:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 22:00:23 -0000 Received: from tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (tot-wl.proxy.aol.com [205.188.199.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA02950 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:00:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC86703C.ipt.aol.com [172.134.112.60]) by tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eB1M0B829343 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:00:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A27F275.571551B0@y...> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:48:21 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Starting with "I propose" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale It isn't the rule that starts "I propose", Jamie, it's the proposal. Hence, "I propse". Not a lot else you can do with a proposal before it's been proposed. We haven't so far (the one rule we've passed) taken the "I propose" to be part of the rule, and it's fairly self-evident I think that it isn't part of the rule but part of the proposal. So what's the problem? Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Fri Dec 01 14:03:23 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: RachelEDugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 22:03:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 41233 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 22:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 22:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.156.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 23:03:59 -0000 Received: from tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (tot-wl.proxy.aol.com [205.188.199.1]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA05145 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:02:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from yahoo.co.uk (AC86703C.ipt.aol.com [172.134.112.60]) by tot-wl.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eB1M2g803075 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 17:02:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A27F34F.E24F3C89@y...> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:51:59 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rachel's polling proposal; New proposal for writing up of rules References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apparently-From: racheledugdale@a... From: R Dugdale > > Nope, what I meant was amendments. To the rules. To the *set* of > > rules. But if you think it would be clearer for me to rephrase it, I > > will do, although unfortunately rephrasing means that you have to > > restart all of the voting procedures. So we could all just agree now > > that I'll rephrase it when I add it to the actual rules. > > I'm afraid I think the distinction does need to be made between >amendments and rules. If you could add 'and rules' to the current >phrasing when you write it up, that would be fine. There is a distinction between amendments and rules. I meant, though, amendments to *the rules* rather than just to particular individual rules. But I'll alter the phrasing when I add it if you like. So you'll have to vote for it so that it passes. I don't think we need the whole clerk thing. I've all ready set up the file, and it's not hard to add to it. I've pretty much all ready taken it upon myself to do the recording stuff, by doing that, anyway. Although you can help out if you like. :-) Rachel. From archer@n... Fri Dec 01 15:27:00 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 1 Dec 2000 23:26:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 47219 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2000 23:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2000 23:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.54) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Dec 2000 23:26:59 -0000 Received: from chrislis ([66.26.59.83]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:26:32 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001201183604.00898a00@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 18:36:04 -0500 To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Subject: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin Hello all, My name is Chris Goodwin. I am in the United States (don't worry, I won't ask for any recounts). I've been interested in Nomic for quite some time but have never participated in a game. I run a Nomic club in Yahoo clubs (called, simply, nomic) and was introduced to this list by Rachel. -- "Oh, I'm a magickal pureblood! I'm a pagan Luke Skywalker, a were-Jesus, a ... a lycan-Buddha! This is all wonderful!" -- Chelsea Chattan Chris Goodwin archer@n... From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Fri Dec 01 17:41:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 92490 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 01:41:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 01:41:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 01:41:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.68] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2000 01:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26225 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Dec 2000 01:41:18 -0000 Date: 2 Dec 2000 01:41:18 -0000 Message-ID: <975721278.26222@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that we amend the first rule, so that a vote can be won by majority (more than 50% of the members of the list) rather than requiring absolute agreement. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 7 votes, 77.78% - Against, 2 votes, 22.22% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - For - wandrer@w... - archer@n... - quisadillamary@a... - punkbass_2000@y... - russellp@m... - Arasine@n... - chris_harris2@l... - Against - james.johnston@s... - racheledugdale@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 02 02:58:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 2 Dec 2000 10:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 16808 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 10:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 10:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 10:58:38 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 142ANJ-0005i7-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:58:37 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 142ANJ-0006sH-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 10:58:37 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:58:37 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Contradicting rules Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Ok, that is what I meant, and I was not too happy about the way I put it. > But please, remember that English is not my first language.... Sorry, I didn't realise that. You must in turn remember that I'm a latecomer... not as good an excuse as yours, though... :) Jamie From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 02 03:03:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 2 Dec 2000 11:03:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 20224 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 11:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 11:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 12:04:43 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 142AS9-0005kh-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:03:37 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 142AS9-0006to-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:03:37 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:03:37 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Starting with "I propose" Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > It isn't the rule that starts "I propose", Jamie, it's the proposal. > Hence, "I propse". Not a lot else you can do with a proposal before > it's been proposed. > > We haven't so far (the one rule we've passed) taken the "I propose" to > be part of the rule, and it's fairly self-evident I think that it isn't > part of the rule but part of the proposal. > > So what's the problem? You're right, there isn't actually a problem so long as we can retail the use of common sense. I was responding to the increasingly serious tone by trying a bit of self-parody, but unfortunately I forgot that doesn't work on email as well as in person. But I do think it might be worth doing a bit of systematising of how exactly new rules are to be written down - there needn't be a rule, but if we could just have some kind of accepted method or process of doing it, that would help, I think. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 02 03:07:44 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 2 Dec 2000 11:07:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 31002 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 11:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 11:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 11:07:43 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 142AW6-0005dQ-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:07:43 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 142AW7-0006us-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:07:43 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:07:43 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Rachel's polling proposal; New proposal for writing up of rules Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > There is a distinction between amendments and rules. I meant, though, > amendments to *the rules* rather than just to particular individual > rules. But I'll alter the phrasing when I add it if you like. So > you'll have to vote for it so that it passes. Will do. I know you and the rest of us all know the disctinction between rules and amendments, I was just suggesting that it should be made clear in that proposal, because if I didn't know what you were meaning to do with it I'd assume that 'rule amendments' meant 'amendments to rules', not 'amendments to the rules'. I know this all seems very picky at the moment, but we'll get in huge problems later on if we don't sort out the wording of these early rules now. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 02 03:16:11 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 2 Dec 2000 11:16:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 10617 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 11:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 11:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 12:17:15 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 142AeH-0006ij-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:16:09 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 142AeH-0006xM-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:16:09 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 11:16:09 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Introduction Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Welcome, Chris. I'm sure Rachel will bring you up to speed, but just to warn you that you'll probably find the game at the stage we're currently at a bit unfamiliar and possibly boring, because we're still sorting out the basic game rules which in games of Straight Nomic (Impure Nomic?) you start with already given. But you'll soon adjust, I'm sure. :) Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Sat Dec 02 03:27:33 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 2 Dec 2000 11:27:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 57768 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 11:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 11:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r11.mail.aol.com) (152.163.225.65) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 12:28:38 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.3d.450d3e0 (3892) for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2000 06:27:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3d.450d3e0.275a369b@a...> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 06:27:23 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Starting with "I propose" To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... I'm sorry, even I couldn't tell that that was self-parody, so I doubt anyone else could (as I believe I know you better than they do. :-)). I think we did have a quite convincing method of putting forwards proposals and it really was working quite well before people started to question it. Basically proposals are framed as 'I propose...' and the rule is then whatever the person is saying that they propose. Seems to work; we've done it once all ready. Rachel. From archer@n... Sat Dec 02 06:57:16 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 2 Dec 2000 14:57:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 1082 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2000 14:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2000 14:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.54) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Dec 2000 14:57:10 -0000 Received: from lischris ([24.162.232.77]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:56:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001202100114.00abc790@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 10:01:14 -0500 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Introduction In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 11:16 AM 12/2/00 +0100, James Johnston wrote: >Welcome, Chris. I'm sure Rachel will bring you up to speed, but just to warn you that you'll probably find the game at the stage we're currently at a bit unfamiliar and possibly boring, because we're still sorting out the basic game rules which in games of Straight Nomic (Impure Nomic?) you start with already given. But you'll soon adjust, I'm sure. :) > I've read through the archives, so I think I'm pretty up to speed. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with starting with "All players must agree on any rules changes". I've heard of many successful Nomic games that started with only that. -- "Oh, I'm a magickal pureblood! I'm a pagan Luke Skywalker, a were-Jesus, a ... a lycan-Buddha! This is all wonderful!" -- Chelsea Chattan Chris Goodwin archer@n... From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Dec 03 10:55:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 65094 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2000 18:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Dec 2000 18:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Dec 2000 18:55:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.122] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2000 18:55:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 76919 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Dec 2000 18:55:05 -0000 Date: 3 Dec 2000 18:55:05 -0000 Message-ID: <975869705.76918@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: There will be no overall winner but a separating of all players by the end into two or more groups, determined by other introduced rules. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Sounds interesting, 4 votes, 50.00% - Oh please...no!, 4 votes, 50.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Sounds interesting - russellp@m... - james.johnston@s... - Arasine@n... - racheledugdale@y... - Oh please...no! - punkbass_2000@y... - archer@n... - chris_harris2@l... - wandrer@w... For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Dec 03 10:58:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79434 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2000 18:58:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2000 18:58:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Dec 2000 19:59:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.122] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2000 18:58:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 77258 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Dec 2000 18:58:20 -0000 Date: 3 Dec 2000 18:58:20 -0000 Message-ID: <975869900.77257@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that it be forbidden to discuss on this list the mathematics of conditional probability and the relative probabilities of having different numbers of children. (Sorry. Something of an in-joke. Please all vote in favour...) CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 7 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Dec 03 15:31:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 76045 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2000 23:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2000 23:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Dec 2000 23:31:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.114] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2000 23:31:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 20711 invoked by uid 65534); 3 Dec 2000 23:31:01 -0000 Date: 3 Dec 2000 23:31:01 -0000 Message-ID: <975886261.20709@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that henceforwards the polling feature be used only for the proposal of rule amendments, so that it is easy to see all of these at once without the confusion of other polls, and that other issues be discussed on the list. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 7 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - For - archer@n... - racheledugdale@y... - james.johnston@s... - punkbass_2000@y... - wandrer@w... - Arasine@n... - chris_harris2@l... - Against For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Dec 03 16:08:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 76782 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 00:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 00:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mo.egroups.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 01:09:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.4] by mo.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 00:08:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 44815 invoked by uid 65534); 4 Dec 2000 00:08:38 -0000 Date: 4 Dec 2000 00:08:38 -0000 Message-ID: <975888518.44813@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that posts to the email list should be kept with relevant subject lines. This hasn't been a problem with this list as yet, but most lists don't seem to keep relevant subject lines for long. And it would be useful in referencing back to the archives. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Against, 1 votes, 14.29% - For, 6 votes, 85.71% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Against - james.johnston@s... - For - archer@n... - punkbass_2000@y... - wandrer@w... - Arasine@n... - racheledugdale@y... - chris_harris2@l... For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From james.johnston@s... Sun Dec 03 16:53:40 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 00:53:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 17451 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 00:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 00:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 00:53:36 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 00:53:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:53:31 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Rule names proposal Message-ID: <90epub+f9um@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001202100114.00abc790@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 344 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.177 From: james.johnston@s... Rachel has drawn my attention to a couple of problems with the wording of my rpoposal on giving names to rules, so I've changed the wording to something which I hope now has no loopholes. I'm afraid this means you'll have to cast your votes again. Sorry for the inconvenience. Jamie P.S. If anyone *can* see any loopholes, please do tell me! From james.johnston@s... Sun Dec 03 17:03:34 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 01:03:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 45038 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 01:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 01:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 01:03:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.42] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 01:03:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:03:11 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Starting with "I propose"; recording of new rules Message-ID: <90eqgf+fnps@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3d.450d3e0.275a369b@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1605 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.177 From: james.johnston@s... As Rachel says, the current practice is all wokring fine at the moment. The slight worry that I have, which I know is probably unfounded, is that at the moment we have a certain amount of changing of the wording of proposals happening in between when they're passed and when they're written down. Now this is obviously perfectly okay as long as everyone keeps a clear head, but there's a danger that somewhere down the line, a slight adjustment will be made to the wording of a rule after it's been passed in order to make it clearer or more precise or whatever, and then someone will find that they now don't agree to the new phrasing - except it'll be too late, because they've already voted for it and it's been written down! I know this is very unlikely and I don't mean for a moment to suggest that rachel or anyone else who may at any stage be in charge of writing down the rules would deliberately re-word a rule without checking with everyone else first, but changing the wording of rules with the best intentions and the utmost common sense could still be accidentally problematic. Of course simply cutting out 'I propose' isn't a problem, and nor is changing 'should' to 'must', but other than those two changes, which I think we all agree on, I would feel happier if we could have some sort of general understanding that when a rule's passed it will be written down exactly as it was proposed, or at least not changed without the consent of all players. I don't suggest that we need bother having a rule about this, but I just wanted to check that everyone feels the same way. Do they? Jamie From archer@n... Sun Dec 03 18:15:24 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 02:15:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 45836 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 02:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 02:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 03:16:25 -0000 Received: from lischris ([24.162.232.77]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:14:10 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001203211917.00a4ed90@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:19:17 -0500 To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Subject: Parliamentary procedure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin Is there an informal parliamentary procedure that has developed for the group? The reason I ask is because of some possible ambiguity regarding the new rule 4. When someone creates a poll, is that considered the formal proposal, or does someone submit a proposal to the list, allow a discussion period for amendments and such, and then the "question is called" by creating the proposal as a poll? Do we need a formal set of rules for parliamentary procedure? I have a feeling that, whether we think we do or not, the simple fact that we have such a rules-light game to start with means that rules for parliamentary procedure will end up being proposed. Are such frowned upon? -- "Oh, I'm a magickal pureblood! I'm a pagan Luke Skywalker, a were-Jesus, a ... a lycan-Buddha! This is all wonderful!" -- Chelsea Chattan Chris Goodwin archer@n... From racheledugdale@y... Mon Dec 04 14:01:12 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 22:01:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 96075 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 22:01:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 22:01:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r13.mail.aol.com) (152.163.225.67) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 22:01:10 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.37.d7a6dcf (4411) for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:00:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37.d7a6dcf.275d6e00@a...> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:00:32 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Parliamentary procedure To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... The general idea is, you can propose a rule on the list first, or you can just add it to the polls, whichever you like. Although if anyone wants to introduce rules governing this, there's nothing stopping them. Personally I would like to see more discussion of rules prior to voting than there has been thus far, and I think Jamie is with me on this one, but it's really just up to the individual proposer. Either way, with Rule 4, what it basically amounts to is that polls will run for 10 days. Whether the proposal is discussed prior to that, or during that time, etc, is really up to whoever is involved (so everyone). To the best of my knowledge there's no particular frowning upon of anything, at least not from me. Other people may frown if they want to, since there aren't any rules against so doing. And they can always vote against if you try to introduce parliamentary procedures in to the rules. Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Mon Dec 04 14:02:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 22:02:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 60335 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 22:00:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 22:00:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r14.mail.aol.com) (152.163.225.68) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 22:00:45 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.64.8fcd140 (4411) for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:00:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <64.8fcd140.275d6e01@a...> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:00:33 EST Subject: Re: recording of new rules To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... I'm fine with not changing the wording other than to extract the rule from the proposal. And I'm the person who writes at the moment. Besides, any complaints, just yell at me loudly!!! And I can always re-adjust. Rachel. From james.johnston@s... Mon Dec 04 14:16:11 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 22:16:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 69257 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 22:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 22:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 23:17:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 22:16:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 22:16:00 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Parliamentary procedure Message-ID: <90h530+bi3f@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001203211917.00a4ed90@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1405 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.12.103.33 From: james.johnston@s... > Is there an informal parliamentary procedure that has developed for the > group? The reason I ask is because of some possible ambiguity regarding > the new rule 4. When someone creates a poll, is that considered the formal > proposal, or does someone submit a proposal to the list, allow a discussion > period for amendments and such, and then the "question is called" by > creating the proposal as a poll? We're obviously on the same wavelength, Chris, because what you've just described is almost exactly what I proposed a while back. It hasn't been instituted as a rule, although I personally have adopted it as my standard practice to put proposals before the other players for discussion before making polls of them. Currently, however, it's not compulsory to do this, and the ten-day time-limit on rules, added to the capacity to change the wording of polls built into the polling feature, allows enough time for discussion and amendment in any case. I didn't receive any positive feedback about my proposal of a parliamentary system, as you call it (I wasn;t aware that that was what it was, but I'll trust your judgement), but then I didn't receive very much negative feedback about it either, so if you wanted to put such a proposal forward now you might find people in favour. I'm fairly sure I would be (subject to the exact details, of course, which no doubt can be discussed). Jamie From james.johnston@s... Mon Dec 04 14:21:06 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 22:21:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 32771 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 22:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 22:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 22:21:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 22:21:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 22:20:58 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Rule 4? Message-ID: <90h5ca+e78e@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <37.d7a6dcf.275d6e00@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 905 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.12.103.33 From: james.johnston@s... > Either way, with Rule 4, what it basically amounts to is that polls will run > for 10 days. Whether the proposal is discussed prior to that, or during that > time, etc, is really up to whoever is involved (so everyone). Um... I may have got my numbering wrong, but in my own notes I have rule number 4 down as being "Henceforward the polling feature must be used only for the proposal of rules or rule amendments, so that it is easy to see all of these at once without the confusion of other polls, and other issues may be discussed on the list." It sounds like you're thinking of rule 4 as the one about the ten-day time-limit, which I have down as rule 2. Is it, perhaps, time to publish the first issue of the Official Record of the Rules (forgive my gratuitous capitalisation) to clear up such confusion (which will hopefully be reduced in any case if we pass the rule-naming proposal)? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Mon Dec 04 14:26:06 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 22:26:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 78900 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 22:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 22:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 22:24:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 22:24:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 22:24:51 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: recording of new rules Message-ID: <90h5jj+c80k@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <64.8fcd140.275d6e01@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 782 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.12.103.33 From: james.johnston@s... > Besides, any complaints, just yell at me loudly!!! And I can always > re-adjust. True, but one of the issues involved here is that you can always re-adjust, whereas I would have thought once a rule was written down in the official records it would then only be adjustable by the consent of all players, since once it's written down changing it constitutes a change to the rules, and comes under the initial rule. So perhaps to avoid this being necessary, you could inform us all of the wording you intend to write down in the records before you do so, just so we can all check that we agree that it's the same proposal we voted for? I know this sounds very officious, but I feel it would be nice to have a protocol in place so we don't have to worry about it in future. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Mon Dec 04 14:28:15 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 22:28:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 88056 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 22:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 22:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 22:27:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2000 22:27:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 22:27:12 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Post-script to "Re: recording of new rules" Message-ID: <90h5o0+ggnr@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <64.8fcd140.275d6e01@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 358 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.12.103.33 From: james.johnston@s... And incidentally, if we do decide to have a system whereby Rachel tells everyone what wording she intends to write down once a proposal's been passed, it strikes me that if she tells us at the same itme what the number of that rule will be, we'll be able to avoid a good deal of possible confusion and all keep our own personal records more accurate. Jamie From archer@n... Mon Dec 04 18:43:29 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 02:43:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 23184 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 02:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 02:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 03:44:24 -0000 Received: from lischris ([24.162.232.77]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:42:07 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001204214712.00992100@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:47:12 -0500 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Parliamentary procedure In-Reply-To: <90h530+bi3f@eGroups.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20001203211917.00a4ed90@p...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 10:16 PM 12/4/00 -0000, james.johnston@s... wrote: > >I didn't receive any positive feedback about my proposal of a parliamentary system, as you call it (I wasn;t aware that that was what it was, but I'll trust your judgement), but then I didn't receive very much negative feedback about it either, so if you wanted to put such a proposal forward now you might find people in favour. I'm fairly sure I would be (subject to the exact details, of course, which no doubt can be discussed). > When I say "parliamentary procedure" I'm talking about the kinds of things you see in "Robert's Rules of Order". So-and-so is the chair, voting shall be conducted in thus-and-such manner, a certain amount of time is permitted for discussion, putting the proposal to a vote follows a certain rule, and so on. Parliamentary procedure is the generic term. -- "Oh, I'm a magickal pureblood! I'm a pagan Luke Skywalker, a were-Jesus, a ... a lycan-Buddha! This is all wonderful!" -- Chelsea Chattan Chris Goodwin archer@n... From archer@n... Mon Dec 04 18:45:28 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 02:45:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 41632 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 02:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 02:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 02:45:24 -0000 Received: from lischris ([24.162.232.77]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:44:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001204214917.009917f0@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:49:17 -0500 To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Subject: A pair of proposals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin Proposal: Validity of Actions No game action is valid if it is not performed in accordance with the game rules then in effect. Proposal: Ex-Post Facto Rules No game action may be invalidated by a rule passed after the action was performed. -- "Oh, I'm a magickal pureblood! I'm a pagan Luke Skywalker, a were-Jesus, a ... a lycan-Buddha! This is all wonderful!" -- Chelsea Chattan Chris Goodwin archer@n... From racheledugdale@y... Tue Dec 05 04:07:48 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 12:07:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 88426 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 12:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 12:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r18.mail.aol.com) (152.163.225.72) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 13:08:52 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.f6.5419594 (15899) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:07:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from web32.aolmail.aol.com (web32.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.8]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:07:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:07:36 EST Subject: Records of rules To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... Jamie wrote in his postscript: << And incidentally, if we do decide to have a system whereby Rachel tells everyone what wording she intends to write down once a proposal's been passed, it strikes me that if she tells us at the same itme what the number of that rule will be, we'll be able to avoid a good deal of possible confusion and all keep our own personal records more accurate. >> Well, I've actually set up egroups so that it will send out the file of agreed rules monthly, so might as well really just keep the latest copy of that, don't you think? Although if you want to keep your own records, of course you can do. Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Tue Dec 05 04:09:59 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 12:09:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 71718 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 12:09:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 12:09:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r10.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 12:09:58 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.30.d875f8f (5717) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from web29.aolmail.aol.com (web29.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.5]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:09:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:09:55 EST Subject: Rule numbers To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <30.d875f8f.275e3514@a...> X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... Jamie wrote: <> Yes, I got the numbers wrong! I admit it! (But, no rules against it, so it doesn't matter...) The official rules are on the 'files' page of the egroups site, and will send out automatically every month from now to update everyone. But if we pass the naming rule of course it will be easier. Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Tue Dec 05 04:26:14 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 12:26:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 47517 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 12:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 12:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r18.mail.aol.com) (152.163.225.72) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 12:26:13 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.c2.416e70c (15882) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:26:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:26:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:26:06 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: recording of new rules To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... <> Okay, point taken. I was just thinking that if anyone thinks I've written it down wrongly, they can yell at me. But I'll just check first, and anyway I'll just take it as directly from the proposal as I can. Rachel. From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 05 15:00:52 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:00:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 79235 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:00:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:00:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mo.egroups.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 23:00:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.59] by mo.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2000 23:00:08 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:00:06 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Parliamentary procedure Message-ID: <90js1m+9jbp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001204214712.00992100@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 893 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.213.187 From: james.johnston@s... > When I say "parliamentary procedure" I'm talking about the kinds of things > you see in "Robert's Rules of Order". So-and-so is the chair, voting shall > be conducted in thus-and-such manner, a certain amount of time is permitted > for discussion, putting the proposal to a vote follows a certain rule, and > so on. Ah, well that sounds much more complicated than what I proposed, but do have a go at suggesting a system if you like. It sounds fairly sensible. The only thing I would say (which may surprise those other players who consider my main features to be pedantry and officiousness) is that we're only a fairly small group here, so the need for rules regulating discussion or for having a chair (let alone someone to sit in it) doesn't seem to me very pressing. But some systematisation (if that's a word) of the procedure for putting forward proposals might be helpful. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 05 15:09:51 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:09:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 96414 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:09:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:09:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 23:09:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.43] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2000 23:09:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:09:32 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Ex-Post Facto Rules Message-ID: <90jsjc+mg5l@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001204214917.009917f0@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 679 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.213.187 From: james.johnston@s... --- In Pure_Nomic@egroups.com, Chris Goodwin wrote: > Proposal: Ex-Post Facto Rules > > No game action may be invalidated by a rule passed after the action was > performed. I have some reservations about this, but that may be becuase I'm not entirely clear what it means. Can we have a definition of 'game actions', please? My worry here is that this rule sounds as though it would cause some rules to be irrevocable, and I don't think that's wise, because at this stage we're very much feeling our way in the game and we may well find that rules we make now will have problems which later need to be sorted out. But maybe this wouldn;t be a problem. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 05 15:12:17 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:12:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3907 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 23:12:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.43] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2000 23:12:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:11:49 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Records of rules Message-ID: <90jsnl+psn9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 550 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.213.187 From: james.johnston@s... > Well, I've actually set up egroups so that it will send out the file of agreed rules monthly, so might as well really just keep the latest copy of that, don't you think? Although if you want to keep your own records, of course you can do. I feel that players ought really to keep their own record of the rules, because in a month the official bulletin can become out of date, and everyone needs to be able to refer to an -up-to-date copy of the rules. But the monthly update will be helpful, thanks. When's the first one due, do you know? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 05 15:13:45 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:13:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 19894 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 23:13:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.43] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2000 23:13:21 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:13:17 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: recording of new rules Message-ID: <90jsqd+2a6m@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 145 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.213.187 From: james.johnston@s... > But I'll just check first, and anyway I'll just take it as directly from the proposal as I can. Thanks. I think that would be helpful. Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Tue Dec 05 15:16:04 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:16:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 90844 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Dec 2000 23:16:03 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.6d.c656624 (4559) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:15:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6d.c656624.275ed12f@a...> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:15:59 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Ex-Post Facto Rules To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... > > Proposal: Ex-Post Facto Rules > > > > No game action may be invalidated by a rule passed after the action was > > performed. > > I have some reservations about this, but that may be becuase I'm not > entirely clear what it means. Can we have a definition of 'game actions', > please? > > My worry here is that this rule sounds as though it would cause some rules > to be irrevocable, and I don't think that's wise, because at this stage we're > very much feeling our way in the game and we may well find that rules we make > now will have problems which later need to be sorted out. But maybe this > wouldn;t be a problem. I think he meant that if someone does something, they can't later be penalised if it then becomes against the rules. Like if you stole something, and then a week later stealing became illegal, you couldn't be arrested/charged for it. I think. but clarification might be useful. Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Tue Dec 05 15:18:31 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:18:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 21507 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r08.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.8) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 00:18:46 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.a1.e03322a (4559) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:17:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:17:30 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Records of rules To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... > I feel that players ought really to keep their own record of the rules, > because in a month the official bulletin can become out of date, and everyone > needs to be able to refer to an -up-to-date copy of the rules. But the > monthly update will be helpful, thanks. When's the first one due, do you know? I don't know. I could set it up for weekly, but then taht might be too much for some people, I don't know. What are everyone's feelings? Rachel. From archer@n... Tue Dec 05 15:55:48 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Dec 2000 23:55:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 21858 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2000 23:55:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2000 23:55:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mail6.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.53) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 00:56:52 -0000 Received: from lischris ([24.162.232.77]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:55:19 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001205185950.00a99100@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:59:50 -0500 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Ex-Post Facto Rules In-Reply-To: <90jsjc+mg5l@eGroups.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20001204214917.009917f0@p...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 11:09 PM 12/5/00 -0000, james.johnston@s... wrote: >--- In Pure_Nomic@egroups.com, Chris Goodwin wrote: > >> Proposal: Ex-Post Facto Rules >> >> No game action may be invalidated by a rule passed after the action was >> performed. > >I have some reservations about this, but that may be becuase I'm not entirely clear what it means. Can we have a definition of 'game actions', please? > A game action is any action taken within the context of the game, including but not limited to making a proposal, calling for a vote, performing any moderator action on the list, etc. >My worry here is that this rule sounds as though it would cause some rules to be irrevocable, and I don't think that's wise, because at this stage we're very much feeling our way in the game and we may well find that rules we make now will have problems which later need to be sorted out. But maybe this wouldn;t be a problem. > Thanks for pointing that out; that wasn't the intent. The intent was, as Rachel later rightly points out, is that someone can't be penalized for doing something that later is against the rules. Let me amend it then: No game action may be invalidated by a rule passed after the action was performed. This should not be construed to prohibit the repeal of any rule. -- "Oh, I'm a magickal pureblood! I'm a pagan Luke Skywalker, a were-Jesus, a ... a lycan-Buddha! This is all wonderful!" -- Chelsea Chattan Chris Goodwin archer@n... From james.johnston@s... Wed Dec 06 14:50:30 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 6 Dec 2000 22:50:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 41552 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2000 22:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2000 22:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 23:51:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2000 22:50:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 22:50:24 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Records of rules Message-ID: <90mfrg+difv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 466 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.201.187 From: james.johnston@s... > I don't know. I could set it up for weekly, but then taht might be too much > for some people, I don't know. What are everyone's feelings? I don't think you need do that, but it might be helpful if when a new rule is passed you could tell us what number it's going to be, since you've said you'll tell us the wording in any case. That way we can keep our own records up-to-date. I feel bad about asking you to do so much work. Do you want to delegate? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Wed Dec 06 14:54:09 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 6 Dec 2000 22:54:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 65780 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2000 22:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Dec 2000 22:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 22:54:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.116] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2000 22:54:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 22:53:58 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Ex-Post Facto Rules Message-ID: <90mg26+8hdv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001205185950.00a99100@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 619 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.201.187 From: james.johnston@s... > No game action may be invalidated by a rule passed after the action was > performed. This should not be construed to prohibit the repeal of any rule. Thanks for clarifying that. I'm happy to vote for that. The only reason I was concerned initially was because one of the things I like about this game is that one needn;t feel to worried about passing a rule, since it can always be changed or repealed later. So the only rule one needs to be very careful about passing is one which prevents the repeal or changing of any rule, especially itself! But now that this proposal isn't such a rule, I support it. Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 07 03:21:08 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 11:21:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 21325 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 11:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 11:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d09.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 11:21:07 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.33.) id a.9d.e2d508d (15901) for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from web25.aolmail.aol.com (web25.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.1]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:21:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:21:05 EST Subject: Me (Rachel) having lots of work To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <9d.e2d508d.2760cca2@a...> X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... It's okay. this whole list is my 'fault'. :-) If it gets too much I'll hand some of it over, maybe. Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Thu Dec 07 03:22:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 74806 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 11:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 11:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 12:23:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.27] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 11:22:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 81058 invoked by uid 65534); 7 Dec 2000 11:22:18 -0000 Date: 7 Dec 2000 11:22:18 -0000 Message-ID: <976188138.81057@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that all polls should be presented in the English language CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, let's do that, 7 votes, 100.00% - No way!, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes, let's do that - wandrer@w... - racheledugdale@y... - archer@n... - james.johnston@s... - chris_harris2@l... - punkbass_2000@y... - Arasine@n... - No way! For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 07 03:25:11 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 11:25:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 29858 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 11:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 11:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 11:25:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: racheledugdale@y... Received: from [10.1.2.27] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 11:25:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:25:04 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: new rule (5) Message-ID: <90ns2g+on25@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 107 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 195.194.152.2 From: "Rachel Dugdale" As I have entered it: ----- Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. ----- Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 07 03:28:19 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 11:28:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 20398 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 11:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 11:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 12:29:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: racheledugdale@y... Received: from [10.1.10.109] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 11:28:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:28:15 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Proposal Message-ID: <90ns8f+rep7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 545 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 195.194.152.2 From: "Rachel Dugdale" ----Proposal---- The word 'should', appearing in rules, is to be read as 'must'. --------- I would like to propose that, for the purposes of clarity, the word 'should', which has been used to formulate some proposals, be read as 'must' because otherwise these are not really the most useful rules in the world. If we decide to introduce any further regulation of anything later, there will be too many loopholes if the word 'should', appearing in rules, is treated to mean what it literally does. I think this would be useful. Rachel. From wandrer@w... Thu Dec 07 05:37:50 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 13:37:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 25563 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 13:37:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 13:37:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 13:37:49 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB7Dbmx26379 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:37:48 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:37:47 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DB8@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:37:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." Hoera! Geen onverstaanbare taal meer in de enquetes!! :-) Met blijde groet, Stefan --- Just use the power of your Mind.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@egroups.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:22 > To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > > > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: I propose that all polls should be > presented in the English language > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Yes, let's do that, 7 votes, 100.00% > - No way!, 0 votes, 0.00% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Yes, let's do that > - wandrer@w... > - racheledugdale@y... > - archer@n... > - james.johnston@s... > - chris_harris2@l... > - punkbass_2000@y... > - Arasine@n... > - No way! > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with eGroups, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > -------------------------~-~> > eGroups eLerts > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/_/_/976188140/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > > > > From james.johnston@s... Thu Dec 07 14:36:28 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 22:36:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 17997 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 22:36:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 22:36:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 23:37:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 22:36:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 22:36:22 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: new rule (5) Message-ID: <90p3d6+lkur@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <90ns2g+on25@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 637 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.156 From: james.johnston@s... --- In Pure_Nomic@egroups.com, "Rachel Dugdale" wrote: > As I have entered it: > > ----- > Rule 5: > All polls should be presented in the English language. > ----- Two suggestions: ''polls" changed to "proposals" (this isn't very important but might help to clarify things) "should" to "must" (otherwise this rule still doesn't actually forbid anyone from presenting proposals in English) These suggestions are based on the assumptions that the rule was intended to refer to proposals and that it was intended to be compulsory. If I'm wrong in these assumptions, obviously my suggestions are redundant. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Thu Dec 07 14:38:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 22:38:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 2781 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 22:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 22:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 22:38:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2000 22:38:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 22:38:50 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal Message-ID: <90p3hq+seor@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <90ns8f+rep7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 466 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.156 From: james.johnston@s... --- In Pure_Nomic@egroups.com, "Rachel Dugdale" wrote: > ----Proposal---- > The word 'should', appearing in rules, is to be read as 'must'. > --------- An excellent proposal, but can I suggest that it might be simpler if, rather than asking everyone to read the word 'should' and take it to mean 'must', we simply ruled that the word 'should' must be *replaced* by the word 'must' in the actual rule, rather than just in all our minds? Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 07 14:57:22 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 22:57:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 7651 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 22:57:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 22:57:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 22:57:19 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.47.469725e (8477) for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:57:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47.469725e.27616fca@a...> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:57:14 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Proposal To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... Jamie wrote: > > ----Proposal---- > > The word 'should', appearing in rules, is to be read as 'must'. > > --------- > > An excellent proposal, but can I suggest that it might be simpler if, rather > than asking everyone to read the word 'should' and take it to mean 'must', we > simply ruled that the word 'should' must be *replaced* by the word 'must' in > the actual rule, rather than just in all our minds? Except for that, well, you were the one who didn't want me to change the wording of rules once they'd been established... (Also, should is so much nicer a word than must!) Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 07 14:58:19 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Dec 2000 22:58:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 83822 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2000 22:58:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2000 22:58:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r05.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.5) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Dec 2000 22:58:18 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.6c.5a1b85f (8477) for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:58:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6c.5a1b85f.27617001@a...> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:58:09 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: new rule (5) To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... I did just take the wording for this one directly from the poll! But if people want amendments making, say so everyone! Rachel. From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 09 10:47:43 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Dec 2000 18:47:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 15634 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2000 18:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2000 18:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Dec 2000 19:48:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2000 18:47:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:47:36 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal Message-ID: <90tuo8+6q1d@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <47.469725e.27616fca@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1143 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.213.197 From: james.johnston@s... > > > ----Proposal---- > > > The word 'should', appearing in rules, is to be read as 'must'. > > > --------- > > > > An excellent proposal, but can I suggest that it might be simpler if, > rather > > than asking everyone to read the word 'should' and take it to mean 'must', > we > > simply ruled that the word 'should' must be *replaced* by the word 'must' > in > > the actual rule, rather than just in all our minds? > > Except for that, well, you were the one who didn't want me to change the > wording of rules once they'd been established... Although when I made that request I specifically mentioned that as exceptions 'should' ought to be changed to 'must'. But in any case what I was asking if we could avoid was changing the wording of rules between when they're passed and when they're written down, by the person writing them down, rather than having a rule ordering the wording to be changed. There's no reason why rule wording shouldn't be changed by a new rule. > (Also, should is so much nicer a word than must!) I think must has a better onomatopoeic value, but that's not really the question I suppose. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 09 10:51:00 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Dec 2000 18:51:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 2359 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2000 18:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2000 18:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Dec 2000 19:52:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2000 18:50:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:50:56 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: new rule (5) Message-ID: <90tuug+lqi8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <6c.5a1b85f.27617001@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 149 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 152.163.213.197 From: james.johnston@s... > I did just take the wording for this one directly from the poll! > > But if people want amendments making, say so everyone! I've said so. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sun Dec 10 18:15:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17168 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2000 02:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2000 02:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Dec 2000 03:16:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.52] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2000 02:15:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 21731 invoked by uid 7800); 11 Dec 2000 02:15:03 -0000 Date: 11 Dec 2000 02:15:03 -0000 Message-ID: <976500903.670@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I propose that all new polls cannot start "I propose". Just for a laugh. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Okay...., 4 votes, 57.14% - Er., 3 votes, 42.86% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Okay.... - Arasine@n... - james.johnston@s... - wandrer@w... - punkbass_2000@y... - Er. - archer@n... - chris_harris2@l... - racheledugdale@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Mon Dec 11 18:15:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8715 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2000 02:15:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2000 02:15:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Dec 2000 02:15:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.52] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2000 02:15:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 16161 invoked by uid 7800); 12 Dec 2000 02:15:24 -0000 Date: 12 Dec 2000 02:15:24 -0000 Message-ID: <976587324.15945@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 7 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes - archer@n... - racheledugdale@y... - chris_harris2@l... - Arasine@n... - punkbass_2000@y... - wandrer@w... - james.johnston@s... - No For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From james.johnston@s... Thu Dec 14 14:34:44 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 14 Dec 2000 22:34:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 45598 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2000 22:34:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2000 22:34:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Dec 2000 22:34:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.120] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2000 22:34:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:34:29 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: 3 new proposals Message-ID: <91bhtl+kj1h@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <90tuug+lqi8@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1094 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.196.41 From: james.johnston@s... Since things seem a bit quiet around here, I just thought I'd propose something a bit light-hearted: - Rule number 27 shall apply only on Tuesdays. - And another possibility: - Any player who succeeds in getting a proposal passed containing the word 'prestidigitation' will be awarded the right to create one new rule without the agreement of any other players. The word 'prestidigitation' must be contained within the main body of the proposal, not the proposed rule name or any other peripheral section. - They're not much good, I know, but they're off the top of my head. If we want to get the game heading in a particular direction, we could try something like this (which I hear is a common rule in games of pure nomic): - The first player to reach 500 points is the winner. - Although personally I find that idea a bit boring. I much preferred someone's earlier proposal about dividing the players into two groups rather than having any winners or losers. I forget who proposed that, but I thought it was a great idea. Anyway, there's my tuppence-worth for now. Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Fri Dec 15 10:30:47 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 15 Dec 2000 18:30:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 36203 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2000 18:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2000 18:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r06.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.6) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Dec 2000 19:31:51 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.34.) id a.18.62d9acf (7776) for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:30:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <18.62d9acf.276bbd4b@a...> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:30:35 EST Subject: Should vs. Must To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... How about 'shall' in stead of 'should'? It sounds nicer than 'must' but has the meaning we want. Acceptable compromise? Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Fri Dec 15 12:20:08 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 15 Dec 2000 20:20:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 61639 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2000 20:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Dec 2000 20:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Dec 2000 20:20:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: racheledugdale@y... Received: from [10.1.2.207] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2000 20:20:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:19:56 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for Pure_Nomic Message-ID: <91dudc+i7k5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <976587324.15945@egroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 197 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 172.137.21.6 From: "Rachel Dugdale" > Should two or more rules contradict > each other on a given issue, the newest > rule will be considered to override the > other(s). I've copied this word for word. Any objections? Rachel. From racheledugdale@y... Fri Dec 15 12:30:45 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 15 Dec 2000 20:30:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 46944 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2000 20:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2000 20:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Dec 2000 21:31:48 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.33.) id a.b0.dac9ffc (4358) for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:30:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:30:37 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] 3 new proposals To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... > - Rule number 27 shall apply only on Tuesdays. - Hmm. I'm not sure about this; perhaps alternate Tuesdays would be better. Because, as it stands, with each poll lasting for ten days, if rule 27 made something against the rules on Tuesdays, then on a Tuesday any later rule which contradicted rule 27 would be bound to become invalid at some point during its voting time and therefore wouldn't possibly be able to be voted in. Which more or less defeats what I would see as being the point of having rule 27 applying only every so often! > - Any player who succeeds in getting a proposal passed containing the > word 'prestidigitation' will be awarded the right to create one new > rule without the agreement of any other players. The > word 'prestidigitation' must be contained within the main body of the > proposal, not the proposed rule name or any other peripheral > section. - Afraid i don't like this - at some point someone might suggest a really good rule using the word prestidigitation which I otherwise would want to vote for, but I might not trust them enough to dare to vote in favour of it! So that could be somewhat limiting because, well, what other words are there to replace prestidigitation with in proposals?! And it's true, the points rule is boring! Rachel. From wandrer@w... Sun Dec 17 09:23:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 17 Dec 2000 17:23:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 6384 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2000 17:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Dec 2000 17:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta04-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Dec 2000 18:24:44 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta04-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license a20ebc008716c6ca05397a05e78c7098) with SMTP id <20001217172500.YMO8551.amsmta04-svc@marcel> for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:25:00 +0100 Message-ID: <003101c0684e$1494ae80$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <91bhtl+kj1h@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] 3 new proposals Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:23:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" From: "Stefan [The Wanderer]" I have a few questions about your proposals, mostly about the randomness with which they seem to have been chosen: Just use the power of your Mind... > > - Rule number 27 shall apply only on Tuesdays. - Why not on Sundays? I think Sundays are far more special days than Tuesdays (although there's a growing number of people in my country who believe this is not true, and that's why the shops are opened next Sunday (24 December), which means I'll actually have to work!! So I think we should keep Sunday a special day. > > And another possibility: > > - Any player who succeeds in getting a proposal passed containing the > word 'prestidigitation' will be awarded the right to create one new > rule without the agreement of any other players. The > word 'prestidigitation' must be contained within the main body of the > proposal, not the proposed rule name or any other peripheral > section. - > Ehm... what does prestidigation mean? > They're not much good, I know, but they're off the top of my head. > > If we want to get the game heading in a particular direction, we > could try something like this (which I hear is a common rule in games > of pure nomic): > > - The first player to reach 500 points is the winner. - I'd love to see a far more universal number, like "over 10 million decimals of Pi", or "Avogadro's Number", or "friendly numbers", but this last suggestion would mean that one will have to acquire 2 numbers! Or, to bring this on an entirely new terrain, the winner is the first to acquire a certain number of countries (some Risk-like idea). Anyway, there's my tuppence-worth > for now. > > Jamie > And this was mine. Yours worthily, Stefan. Just use the power of your mind... From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 19 04:14:45 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 12:14:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 16909 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 12:14:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 12:14:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 12:14:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.1.38] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2000 12:14:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:14:44 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: Should vs. Must Message-ID: <91njfk+g3f6@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <18.62d9acf.276bbd4b@a...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 30 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.176 From: james.johnston@s... 'Shall' is fine by me. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 19 04:22:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 12:22:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 54106 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 12:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 12:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 13:23:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2000 12:22:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:22:29 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: 3 new proposals Message-ID: <91nju5+a4or@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2309 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.176 From: james.johnston@s... > > - Rule number 27 shall apply only on Tuesdays. - > > Hmm. I'm not sure about this; perhaps alternate Tuesdays would be better. > Because, as it stands, with each poll lasting for ten days, if rule 27 made > something against the rules on Tuesdays, then on a Tuesday any later rule > which contradicted rule 27 would be bound to become invalid at some point > during its voting time and therefore wouldn't possibly be able to be voted > in. Which more or less defeats what I would see as being the point of having > rule 27 applying only every so often! Well while a proposal is still being voted on it isn't strictly speaking a rule, and therefore wouldn't be covered by this rule, whatever day of the week. But I don't object to changing it to alternate Tuesdays, since this is still in keeping with the spirit of the proposal. > > - Any player who succeeds in getting a proposal passed containing the > > word 'prestidigitation' will be awarded the right to create one new > > rule without the agreement of any other players. The > > word 'prestidigitation' must be contained within the main body of the > > proposal, not the proposed rule name or any other peripheral > > section. - > > Afraid i don't like this - at some point someone might suggest a really good > rule using the word prestidigitation which I otherwise would want to vote > for, but I might not trust them enough to dare to vote in favour of it! So > that could be somewhat limiting because, well, what other words are there to > replace prestidigitation with in proposals?! Yes, I did wonder about that. Of course if we were operating a points system then we could just award points for getting 'prestidigitation' in, but as we're not, I had to come up with some other reward. If anyone can think of a different reward, that's fine. But the way I look at it is that the purpose of this proposal and the one above is to introduce an element of uncertainty into the game. In any case, I should think that if someone is sufficiently ingenious to put the word 'prestidigitation' into a proposal which is so good that no one would vote against it, they deserve a prize! Don't forget, any rule they passed as their prize could always be annulled afterwards by another rule. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 19 04:39:26 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 12:39:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 44462 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 12:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 12:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 12:39:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.102] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2000 12:39:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:39:21 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: 3 new proposals Message-ID: <91nktp+lvj8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <003101c0684e$1494ae80$a15553d4@c...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2161 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.188.193.176 From: james.johnston@s... > > - Rule number 27 shall apply only on Tuesdays. - > Why not on Sundays? I think Sundays are far more special days than Tuesdays > (although there's a growing number of people in my country who believe this > is not true, and that's why the shops are opened next Sunday (24 December), > which means I'll actually have to work!! So I think we should keep Sunday a > special day. If people prefer this option I'm happy to go with that. You're right to point out the randomness of these proposals - I deliberately chose the most random things I could think of, and so Tuesday appealed to me simply because I couldn;t think of any reason at all why it should be Tuesday. So I thought I'd make it Tuesday. But Sunday is fine if people would prefer it like that. > Ehm... what does prestidigation mean? Hmm... it's a difficult word ot explain. Let's see what the dictionary says... it says 'sleight of hand, legerdemain'. Like magicians use for card tricks. It's something to do with skilful use of one's fingers to make magic tricks look like magic. > I'd love to see a far more universal number, like "over 10 million decimals > of Pi", or "Avogadro's Number", or "friendly numbers", but this last > suggestion would mean that one will have to acquire 2 numbers! This sounds like a more fun sort of idea, but it strikes me that to set such a rule would be slightly unfair to non-mathematicians like myself, who haven;t a clue what Avogadro's number or friendly numbers are! > Or, to bring this on an entirely new terrain, the winner is the first to > acquire a certain number of countries (some Risk-like idea). This is a much more appealing idea. I like the thought of acquiring countries... but need it necessarily be a certain number of countries? how about acquiring a continent? That way for some continents people would have to acquire more countries, but they might be easier to get, whereas for, say, Australasia, the number of countriues is lower, but they might be more difficult to obtain. And for Antarctica, that would be just one country, but very hard to get hold of. And so on. How about something like that? Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 21 13:59:30 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 21 Dec 2000 21:59:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 35391 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 21:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2000 21:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.33) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 21:59:20 -0000 Received: from racheledugdale@a... by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.35.) id a.5e.4dc73e7 (3848) for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:59:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5e.4dc73e7.2773d72e@a...> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:59:10 EST Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: 3 new proposals To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 X-eGroups-From: racheledugdale@a... From: racheledugdale@y... In a message dated 19/12/00 12:23:10 GMT Standard Time, james.johnston@s... writes: > > > - Rule number 27 shall apply only on Tuesdays. - > > > > Hmm. I'm not sure about this; perhaps alternate Tuesdays would be > better. > > Because, as it stands, with each poll lasting for ten days, if rule > 27 made > > something against the rules on Tuesdays, then on a Tuesday any > later rule > > which contradicted rule 27 would be bound to become invalid at some > point > > during its voting time and therefore wouldn't possibly be able to > be voted > > in. Which more or less defeats what I would see as being the point > of having > > rule 27 applying only every so often! > > Well while a proposal is still being voted on it isn't strictly > speaking a rule, and therefore wouldn't be covered by this rule, > whatever day of the week. But I don't object to changing it to > alternate Tuesdays, since this is still in keeping with the spirit of > the proposal. Rule 27 might forbid something to be proposed / passed. So on every Tuesday any proposal which contravened it would fail. Alternate Tuesdays is a much more practical idea. Stefan, by the way, I think Sundays have enough going for them being special all ready. I think Tuesdays deserve a chance! > Yes, I did wonder about that. Of course if we were operating a points > system then we could just award points for getting 'prestidigitation' > in, but as we're not, I had to come up with some other reward. If > anyone can think of a different reward, that's fine. But the way I > look at it is that the purpose of this proposal and the one above is > to introduce an element of uncertainty into the game. In any case, I > should think that if someone is sufficiently ingenious to put the > word 'prestidigitation' into a proposal which is so good that no one > would vote against it, they deserve a prize! Don't forget, any rule > they passed as their prize could always be annulled afterwards by > another rule. But if they voted against it, the annulling rule wouldn't pass. And I can think of a couple of examples of rules I might choose if that was a prize for me, and they wouldn't be nice from anyone else's point of view! Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Tue Jan 02 09:09:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10623 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Jan 2001 17:09:25 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2001 17:09:25 -0000 Message-ID: <978455365.24165@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). From Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Sat Jan 13 13:16:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19863 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 21:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 21:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 22:17:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.4.73] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2001 21:16:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 17371 invoked by uid 65534); 13 Jan 2001 21:16:31 -0000 Date: 13 Jan 2001 21:16:31 -0000 Message-ID: <979420591.17369@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the Pure_Nomic group: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. o Yes, let's give this game some impulse! o No, I'm too lazy to actually go conquering countries... To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/Pure_Nomic Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Sat Jan 13 13:22:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@c... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 21:22:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 39534 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 21:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 21:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta03-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 21:22:57 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta03-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license fc2c4e20c60bc99c8c8f9bb6725f4ded) with SMTP id <20010113212230.JUHE24088.amsmta03-svc@marcel> for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:22:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c07da6$ba807dc0$a15553d4@marcel> To: Subject: Let's play Nomic!! Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:19:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-eGroups-From: "Stefan" From: "Stefan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, I have heard no objections to my proposal about the conquering countries thing, so I decided to turn it into an actual poll. So... may I have your votes, please? Or any objections to the way I wrote it down, of course. Yours revivingly, Stefan --- Just use the power of your mind... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From james.johnston@s... Sun Jan 14 11:00:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 14 Jan 2001 19:00:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 71294 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jan 2001 19:00:41 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14HsON-0004ik-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:00:39 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14HsOM-00067u-00 for Pure_Nomic@egroups.com; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:00:38 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:00:38 +0100 To: Pure_Nomic@egroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Let's play Nomic!! Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston I've voted in favour. Sorry I haven;t been participating much lately. Things happening, as they tend to do. I'll try to keep up. Jamie From chris_harris2@l... Fri Feb 02 01:29:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 09:29:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 40979 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 09:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 09:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 09:29:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: chris_harris2@l... Received: from [10.1.2.41] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2001 09:29:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:29:34 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Time limits Message-ID: <95dulu+ggr7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 419 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.6.72.77 From: chris_harris2@l... I have not been around for a while, but now i am back and i still dont really get what this game is all about. Also, a rule which was passed stated that all polls have a ten day time limit, the latest rule, which is about conquering continents has already been going on longer than 10 days, would this make that proposal invalid? If anyone can tell me what this game is all about then i would be grateful Chris From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Feb 02 04:01:29 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 71977 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 12:01:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 12:01:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 12:01:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.102] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2001 12:01:27 -0000 Date: 2 Feb 2001 12:01:27 -0000 Message-ID: <981115287.247.97767.sc@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, let's give this game some impulse!, 4 votes, 100.00% - No, I'm too lazy to actually go conquering countries..., 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes, let's give this game some impulse! - james.johnston@s... - punkbass_2000@y... - chris_harris2@l... - racheledugdale@a... - No, I'm too lazy to actually go conquering countries... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From wandrer@w... Fri Feb 02 04:12:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 12:12:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 94420 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 12:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 12:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 12:12:48 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f12CCkH09194 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:12:46 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:12:46 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DC9@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:12:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." Yep, somehow the poll hasn't closed... I am pretty sure I set the time limit correctly, but perhaps it got lost in the process of converting eGroups to Yahoo? groups. Have you noticed how difficult it has become to log in to eGroups? They need an entirely new Yahoo account. I hope this will work out ok, because when Yahoo took over Webring, the result was a great mess. And I guess this conversion can explain why it has been so quiet lately. About the poll: it has indeed exceeded the ten day limit and should therefore -probably- be considered invalid. On the other hand, only four people voted, and that means it wouldn't have passed even if it had been valid. Should I give this another try, or do the people who didn't vote have another suggestion? Comments please! Yours convertedly, Stefan. --- Just use the power of your Mind.... > -----Original Message----- > From: chris_harris2@l... [mailto:chris_harris2@l...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:30 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits > > > I have not been around for a while, but now i am back and i still > dont really get what this game is all about. > > Also, a rule which was passed stated that all polls have a ten day > time limit, the latest rule, which is about conquering continents has > already been going on longer than 10 days, would this make that > proposal invalid? > > If anyone can tell me what this game is all about then i would be > grateful > > Chris > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> > eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups > Click here for more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981106176/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------_-> > > > > > From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Feb 02 18:24:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82832 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Date: 3 Feb 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Message-ID: <981167068.152666765.45522.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Feb 02 18:24:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82831 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Feb 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Date: 3 Feb 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Message-ID: <981167068.152666708.45535.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). From racheledugdale@y... Tue Feb 06 01:58:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 09:58:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 51708 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:58:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 09:58:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4801.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.199) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:59:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20010206095853.1810.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4801.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:58:53 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:58:53 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9DC9@s...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= The fact that it has been going for more than 10 days, and that everyone who has voted, has voted for it, basically means that it has passed. So, Chris, in answer to your question: the aim of the game is now to conquer continents. I know not how... Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From james.johnston@s... Tue Feb 06 09:30:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 17:30:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 16584 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 17:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 17:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:30:53 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 14QBx6-0006d4-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:30:52 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14QBx4-00020N-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:30:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:30:50 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Time limits Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston As I recall - and I believe we did pass a rule to this effect, though if we didn't perhaps we should do - we agreed some time ago that if after the time limit for a proposal has expired no votes against it have been made, the proposal is considered passed. I haven;t checked the polls, so I don't know if there have been any votes against the conquest proposal, but if not, then it';s now a rule. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Mar 02 11:58:11 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 61792 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Mar 2001 19:58:10 -0000 Date: 2 Mar 2001 19:58:10 -0000 Message-ID: <983563090.129490082.35875.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). From archer@n... Fri Mar 02 11:59:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 19:59:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 63303 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 19:59:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 19:59:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 19:59:50 -0000 Received: from CHRISG ([32.97.136.233]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:57:21 -0500 Message-ID: <007a01c0a353$5fe30360$c8642509@r...> To: References: <983563090.129490082.35875.l10@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:00:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Return-Path: archer@n... From: "Chris Goodwin" Wasn't there a rule about the winner being the first person to take over a continent? Or did that get repealed in the last few weeks? -- "And in the end, reality always tends to hit theory hard in the face when you least expect it." -- Linus Torvalds Chris Goodwin archer@n... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > > Rule 1: > All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. > > Rule 2: > All polls will have a ten day time limit. > > Rule 3: > It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. > > Rule 4: > The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. > > Rule 5: > All polls should be presented in the English language. > > Rule 6: > Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From james.johnston@s... Fri Mar 02 13:07:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:07:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 55402 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 21:07:37 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14Ywm0-0001mp-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:07:36 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14Ywm0-0000zu-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:07:36 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:07:36 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston I believe you're correct. Perhaps this should be added? I suppose someone at some stage should make some suggestions about how to take over continents. I'll have a think about it. And incidentally, do we think it would be worth specifying in an amendment that they have ot be real continents as existing on Earth today? Or are we happy to accept continents like Pagea, Middle Earth, The Undying Lands, Fred, etc? Mind you, Pangea wouldn't be easy to acquire... Jamie From punkbass_2000@y... Sat Mar 03 21:21:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 4 Mar 2001 05:21:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 19395 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 05:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2001 05:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web12908.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.75) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 06:22:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20010304052111.28177.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.43.240.164] by web12908.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:21:11 PST Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:21:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick Yes, I do suppose conquering Pangea would require some sort of time-travelling mechanism, though that would be an interesting addition to the game. Theoretically, we could create futures and visit pasts. I was thinking that perhaps we could each start with one continent or something like that. Any thoughts? --- James Johnston wrote: > I believe you're correct. Perhaps this should be > added? > > I suppose someone at some stage should make some > suggestions about how to take over continents. I'll > have a think about it. And incidentally, do we think > it would be worth specifying in an amendment that > they have ot be real continents as existing on Earth > today? Or are we happy to accept continents like > Pagea, Middle Earth, The Undying Lands, Fred, etc? > Mind you, Pangea wouldn't be easy to acquire... > > Jamie > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From james.johnston@s... Sun Mar 04 08:31:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 4 Mar 2001 16:31:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 96663 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 16:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2001 16:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 17:33:03 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14ZbQL-000043-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:31:57 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14ZbQL-0007zq-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 16:31:57 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 16:31:57 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Yes, I do suppose conquering Pangea would require some > sort of time-travelling mechanism, though that would > be an interesting addition to the game. Theoretically, > we could create futures and visit pasts. It wouldn't necessarily require time-travel - in the rule as it currently stands, or rtaher doesn't stand at the moment, it's not specified that the continent one acquires has to be one in existence at the time of its acquisiton. Which makes it perfectly possible to conquer Pangea before, during or after it exists, and indeed if it had never existed at all. > I was thinking that perhaps we could each start with > one continent or something like that. Any thoughts? This might slightly depend on the wording of the rule, which is of course something we don't know at the moment. Does anyone know how we can get this rule passed and onto the list, and does anyone remember the wording? In any case, what I mean is that if the rules says, for example, that the first person to possess one whole continent is the winner, then obviosuly having everyone begin with a continent each makes everyone simultaneous winner. Which is very firendly and democratic but perhaps not what we want. On the other hand if it says something like 'conquer', that's very straightforward, because it indicates that only territory gained by military force count. If it's somehting more neutral like 'acquire', we would have to be careful, because if everyone started with a complete continent then all that would be recuired in order for them to 'acquire' a continent would be to lose and then regain a small part of their starting continent. It's a tricky question, and I think we need ot get the woridng of the rule sorted out. Also, if we each begin with a continent, how many continents are there left unclaimed? And how are we going to decide where, for example, Asia ends and Europe begins? Jamie > > --- James Johnston > wrote: > > I believe you're correct. Perhaps this should be > > added? > > > > I suppose someone at some stage should make some > > suggestions about how to take over continents. I'll > > have a think about it. And incidentally, do we think > > it would be worth specifying in an amendment that > > they have ot be real continents as existing on Earth > > today? Or are we happy to accept continents like > > Pagea, Middle Earth, The Undying Lands, Fred, etc? > > Mind you, Pangea wouldn't be easy to acquire... > > > > Jamie > > > > > ===== > "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." > "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori > "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From wandrer@w... Sun Mar 04 12:42:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 4 Mar 2001 20:42:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 69824 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 20:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2001 20:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta04-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 20:42:00 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta04-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 664b55fc128b69b0c92b08fcc338df83) with SMTP id <20010304204348.CAVS7113.amsmta04-svc@marcel> for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:43:48 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c0a4eb$934ada40$a15553d4@c...> To: References: Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:42:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Stefan" > It's a tricky question, and I think we ! > need ot get the woridng of the rule sorted out. There's a true wrod! Stefan. From racheledugdale@y... Sun Mar 04 14:07:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 4 Mar 2001 22:07:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 7269 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 22:07:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2001 22:07:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4805.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.247) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 22:07:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20010304220701.10169.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.140.74.213] by web4805.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 22:07:01 GMT Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 22:07:01 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001201c0a4eb$934ada40$a15553d4@c...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= > > It's a tricky question, and I think we ! > > need ot get the woridng of the rule sorted out. > > There's a true wrod! I've put it in the rules file, worded exactly as it was passed. So you can check the wording under 'files' or the polls feature. :) Rachel. PS: It says possess. And we have to define possession first. :) ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From james.johnston@s... Mon Mar 05 11:50:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 19:50:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 31462 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 19:50:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 19:50:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 19:50:20 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14a0zq-0003KW-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:50:18 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14a0zq-0004M6-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:50:18 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:50:18 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > > It's a tricky question, and I think we ! > > need ot get the woridng of the rule sorted out. > > There's a true wrod! Hmm... Idneed... :) Jamie From james.johnston@s... Mon Mar 05 12:19:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 20:19:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 73590 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 20:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:19:28 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 14a1S2-0002Kw-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:19:26 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14a1S1-0004cj-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:19:25 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:19:25 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Thanks. We don't actually *have* to define possess, though, unless we want to. If we like, we can just continue until it becomes necessary to find a precise meaning for it. But for what it's worth, I'd suggest that the use of the word 'possess' rather precludes each player from starting with a continent, since as far as I can see they would then possess it and win. Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Tue Mar 06 04:23:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 12:23:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 85592 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 12:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 12:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4801.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.199) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 13:24:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20010306103650.14780.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4801.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:36:50 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:36:50 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= My point with defining the word possession was that it's a part of the rule - something like 'if and only if at that time a proper definition of the word possess exists'. Something like that. So we can't win before we've defined it. Rachel. --- James Johnston wrote: > Thanks. We don't actually *have* to define possess, though, > unless we want to. If we like, we can just continue until it > becomes necessary to find a precise meaning for it. But for > what it's worth, I'd suggest that the use of the word > 'possess' rather precludes each player from starting with a > continent, since as far as I can see they would then possess > it and win. > > Jamie > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From wandrer@w... Tue Mar 06 06:11:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 14:11:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1083 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:11:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 14:11:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta03-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:11:20 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta03-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 664b55fc128b69b0c92b08fcc338df83) with SMTP id <20010306141052.HROE3168.amsmta03-svc@marcel> for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:10:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c0a647$499711e0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <20010306103650.14780.qmail@w...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:10:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Stefan" I suppose the reason I included that is that otherwise someone could say "I do at this point possess Europe, so I have won the game", and we could not prove the contrary.... Yours justifyingly, Stefan. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rachel E Dugdale To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > My point with defining the word possession was that it's a part > of the rule - something like 'if and only if at that time a > proper definition of the word possess exists'. Something like > that. So we can't win before we've defined it. > > Rachel. > > > --- James Johnston wrote: > > Thanks. We don't actually *have* to define possess, though, > > unless we want to. If we like, we can just continue until it > > becomes necessary to find a precise meaning for it. But for > > what it's worth, I'd suggest that the use of the word > > 'possess' rather precludes each player from starting with a > > continent, since as far as I can see they would then possess > > it and win. > > > > Jamie > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From racheledugdale@y... Tue Mar 06 07:30:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 15:30:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 22218 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 15:30:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 15:30:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4804.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.246) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 15:30:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20010306153026.6084.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:30:26 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:30:26 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000601c0a647$499711e0$a15553d4@c...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= > I suppose the reason I included that is that otherwise someone > could say "I > do at this point possess Europe, so I have won the game", and > we could not > prove the contrary.... Surprisingly enough, this was almost exactly what I was going to do, until I noticed that quirk of phrasing... lol. :) Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From james.johnston@s... Tue Mar 06 08:06:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:06:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 16856 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:07:08 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14aJyL-0003si-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:06:01 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14aJyL-0002Cd-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:06:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:06:01 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston Ah. I'd forgotten that. Fair enough. Well do we want to do that now, or leave it until we have some idea of how to gain territory? Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Mar 06 08:07:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:07:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 20916 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:07:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:07:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 16:07:42 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14aJzw-00041t-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:07:40 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14aJzv-0002ED-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:07:39 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:07:39 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > I suppose the reason I included that is that otherwise someone could say "I > do at this point possess Europe, so I have won the game", and we could not > prove the contrary.... You could indeed, but you would only have won the game as far as *you* were concerned. In order for you to have officially won you would have to pass a rule stating that you possessed Europe, which I doubt anyone would agree to, though you can have a go if you want. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Tue Mar 06 08:08:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:08:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 7738 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 16:08:37 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14aK0p-0002ZP-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:08:35 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14aK0o-0002Ex-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:08:34 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:08:34 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Surprisingly enough, this was almost exactly what I was going to > do, until I noticed that quirk of phrasing... lol. :) See my other mail for the reason why this would not constitute winning. :) Jamie From punkbass_2000@y... Tue Mar 06 08:36:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:36:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 81981 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:36:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:36:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web12901.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.68) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 16:36:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20010306163634.36924.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.43.240.164] by web12901.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:36:34 PST Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:36:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20010306103650.14780.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick Maybe we could introduce a rule stating that all words have the definitions that are given in a specific dictionary (ie Oxford English). Again, any thoughts? --- Rachel E Dugdale wrote: > My point with defining the word possession was that > it's a part > of the rule - something like 'if and only if at that > time a > proper definition of the word possess exists'. > Something like > that. So we can't win before we've defined it. > > Rachel. > > > --- James Johnston > wrote: > > Thanks. We don't actually *have* to define possess, > though, > > unless we want to. If we like, we can just > continue until it > > becomes necessary to find a precise meaning for > it. But for > > what it's worth, I'd suggest that the use of the > word > > 'possess' rather precludes each player from > starting with a > > continent, since as far as I can see they would > then possess > > it and win. > > > > Jamie > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at > http://mail.yahoo.ie > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From wandrer@w... Tue Mar 06 12:32:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 20:32:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 30378 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 20:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 20:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta06-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 20:32:24 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta06-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 664b55fc128b69b0c92b08fcc338df83) with SMTP id <20010306203344.JUSQ5134.amsmta06-svc@marcel> for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:33:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0a67c$9818ede0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <20010306163634.36924.qmail@w...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:32:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Stefan" I'd prefer "De Dikke Van Dale", but I doubt if many of the words that are used here are in it. It is somewhat Dutchish... Stefan. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Kolnick To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > Maybe we could introduce a rule stating that all words > have the definitions that are given in a specific > dictionary (ie Oxford English). Again, any thoughts? > > --- Rachel E Dugdale > wrote: > > My point with defining the word possession was that > > it's a part > > of the rule - something like 'if and only if at that > > time a > > proper definition of the word possess exists'. > > Something like > > that. So we can't win before we've defined it. > > > > Rachel. > > > > > > --- James Johnston > > wrote: > > > Thanks. We don't actually *have* to define possess, > > though, > > > unless we want to. If we like, we can just > > continue until it > > > becomes necessary to find a precise meaning for > > it. But for > > > what it's worth, I'd suggest that the use of the > > word > > > 'possess' rather precludes each player from > > starting with a > > > continent, since as far as I can see they would > > then possess > > > it and win. > > > > > > Jamie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at > > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at > > http://mail.yahoo.ie > > > > > ===== > "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." > "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori > "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From racheledugdale@y... Wed Mar 07 03:31:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 11:31:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 75073 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 11:31:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 11:31:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4804.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.246) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 12:32:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20010307113151.18166.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4804.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:31:51 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:31:51 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20010306163634.36924.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= > Maybe we could introduce a rule stating that all words > have the definitions that are given in a specific > dictionary (ie Oxford English). Again, any thoughts? If we did that, i think we'd all really rather struggle to ever possess a continent... :) Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From racheledugdale@y... Wed Mar 07 03:34:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 11:34:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 69543 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 11:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 11:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4801.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.199) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 12:35:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20010307113400.7917.qmail@w...> Received: from [195.194.152.2] by web4801.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:34:00 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:34:00 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= > > Surprisingly enough, this was almost exactly what I was > going to > > do, until I noticed that quirk of phrasing... lol. :) > > See my other mail for the reason why this would not constitute > winning. :) Yes, I realise(d) that, but I just thought it would be fun to try and see if I could fool anyone... Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From james.johnston@s... Wed Mar 07 04:52:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 12:52:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 21261 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 12:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 12:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 12:52:15 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14adQF-0000kh-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:52:07 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14adQE-0004Ba-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:52:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:52:06 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Maybe we could introduce a rule stating that all words > have the definitions that are given in a specific > dictionary (ie Oxford English). Again, any thoughts? We could do that, but I feel it might be a bit restrictive. After all, it might be fun and possibly useful to redefine words at some stage. For example if we redefined the word 'player' to mean 'herbaceous shrub', that would slightly alter the meaning of many of the rules we already have... It seems fairly reasonable to carry on as we have been doing so far, by assuming that we all mean much the same thing by the words we use, and only defining them specifically if it emerges that there's confusion over the meaning. Of course in the case in point, i.e. the definition of 'possession', we will at some stage need to define the word because it's in the rule. But otherwise I personally don't feel any great need to define words or to accept a standard definition, but I'm happy to go along with it if other people would feel happier with that extra security. Jamie From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Mar 07 13:14:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:14:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 43015 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web12908.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.75) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:14:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20010307211440.70028.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.43.240.164] by web12908.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:14:40 PST Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:14:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick Actually, it wouldn't perclude that possibility, due to rule #6, "Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s)." --- James Johnston wrote: > > Maybe we could introduce a rule stating that all > words > > have the definitions that are given in a specific > > dictionary (ie Oxford English). Again, any > thoughts? > > We could do that, but I feel it might be a bit > restrictive. After all, it might be fun and possibly > useful to redefine words at some stage. For example > if we redefined the word 'player' to mean > 'herbaceous shrub', that would slightly alter the > meaning of many of the rules we already have... It > seems fairly reasonable to carry on as we have been > doing so far, by assuming that we all mean much the > same thing by the words we use, and only defining > them specifically if it emerges that there's > confusion over the meaning. Of course in the case in > point, i.e. the definition of 'possession', we will > at some stage need to define the word because it's > in the rule. But otherwise I personally don't feel > any great need to define words or to accept a > standard definition, but I'm happy to go along with > it if other people would feel happier with that > extra security. > > Jamie > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From james.johnston@s... Thu Mar 08 11:41:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 19:41:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 47728 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 19:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 19:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 20:42:37 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14b6Hz-0001Kj-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:41:31 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14b6Hv-0003Lj-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:41:27 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:41:27 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Actually, it wouldn't perclude that possibility, due > to rule #6, "Should two or more rules contradict each > other on a given issue, the newest rule will be > considered to override the other(s)." True. So that takes care of my objection that it might be a problematic rule; but I still feel that it wouldn't add very much to the game, given that 1) I doubt we'd be able to find a dictionary which all of us have a copy of, and 2) we ought to be able to work quite satisfactorily by assuming that we all mean the same thing by the words we use, until the precise definition of a word becomes necessary. And we should also take into account Rachel's point that using a dictionary definition of 'possess' would make the game unwinnable without undertaking a military campaign of territorial annexation such as the world hasn't seen since the rise of Islam, or else spending more money than has ever been gathered in one place. Of course we could always make an exception for 'possess', and find an online dictionary, so I admit these objections aren't surmountable. But basically my feeling is that this rule isn't necessary, so I'd be interested to hear some arguments in support of it from anyone who feels it is necessary or desirable. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Apr 02 19:14:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32511 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Apr 2001 02:14:25 -0000 Date: 3 Apr 2001 02:14:25 -0000 Message-ID: <986264065.144863942.72349.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu May 03 21:17:15 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75314 invoked by uid 7800); 4 May 2001 04:17:14 -0000 Date: 4 May 2001 04:17:14 -0000 Message-ID: <988949834.116474128.6107.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From james.johnston@s... Sat May 05 08:28:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 5 May 2001 15:28:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 93139 invoked from network); 5 May 2001 15:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 May 2001 15:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 May 2001 15:28:10 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14w3yb-0005xa-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 05 May 2001 16:28:09 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14w3yb-0001Ds-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 5 May 2001 16:28:09 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 16:28:09 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposed amendment to Rule 4 Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston > Rule 4: > The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. I would like to propose to amend this rule to read 'The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and no other matters are to be discussed using the polling feature.' This is so that players are permitted to discuss the game, the weather, the time of day, the relative merits of Hamlet and King Lear, Neighbours and Home and Away, or wave mechanics and matrix mechanics, or indeed any other matters they wish to discuss with one another, not only on the e-mail list by in person, on the telephone, by post, etc. :) Any comments? Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Sat May 05 08:47:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 5 May 2001 15:47:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 49722 invoked from network); 5 May 2001 15:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 May 2001 15:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web4801.mail.yahoo.com) (216.115.105.199) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 May 2001 15:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20010505154705.25377.qmail@w...> Received: from [152.163.201.77] by web4801.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 05 May 2001 16:47:05 BST Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 16:47:05 +0100 (BST) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Proposed amendment to Rule 4 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20E=20Dugdale?= ROFL! So true. I agree, this should be amended! Rachel. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From james.johnston@s... Sun May 06 09:33:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 6 May 2001 16:33:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 43670 invoked from network); 6 May 2001 16:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 May 2001 16:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 May 2001 16:33:01 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14wRSu-0001uP-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 06 May 2001 17:33:00 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 14wRSw-0007zv-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 6 May 2001 17:33:02 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 17:33:02 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Proposed amendment to Rule 4 Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston I'll put the official proposal on the polling thing when I get roudn to it. Jamie From wandrer@w... Mon May 07 13:08:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 7 May 2001 20:08:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 52407 invoked from network); 7 May 2001 20:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 May 2001 20:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsmta01-svc.chello.nl) (213.46.240.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 May 2001 20:08:06 -0000 Received: from marcel ([212.83.85.161]) by amsmta01-svc.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.03.02.00 201-232-124 license f747fce8063b429e7fcd66ee14ce8c58) with SMTP id <20010507200116.TZII23593.amsmta01-svc@marcel> for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 22:01:16 +0200 Message-ID: <000401c0d731$0ceb7220$a15553d4@c...> To: References: Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Proposed amendment to Rule 4 Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:05:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Stefan" You mean... like actually talking to someone?? And I always wondered what the use of my GSM was when I couldn't send e-mail with it... Yours amazedly, Stefan --- Just use the power of your Mind... ----- Original Message ----- From: James Johnston To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 5:28 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Proposed amendment to Rule 4 > > Rule 4: > > The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. > > I would like to propose to amend this rule to read 'The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and no other matters are to be discussed using the polling feature.' > > This is so that players are permitted to discuss the game, the weather, the time of day, the relative merits of Hamlet and King Lear, Neighbours and Home and Away, or wave mechanics and matrix mechanics, or indeed any other matters they wish to discuss with one another, not only on the e-mail list by in person, on the telephone, by post, etc. :) > > Any comments? > > Jamie > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Jun 02 06:14:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15799 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Jun 2001 13:14:21 -0000 Date: 2 Jun 2001 13:14:21 -0000 Message-ID: <991487661.108860555.14350.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jul 02 04:59:53 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34539 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Jul 2001 11:59:52 -0000 Date: 2 Jul 2001 11:59:52 -0000 Message-ID: <994075192.104391341.3512.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Aug 01 22:48:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 83295 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Aug 2001 05:48:54 -0000 Date: 2 Aug 2001 05:48:54 -0000 Message-ID: <996731334.82133149.91489.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Sep 01 06:52:56 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73036 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Sep 2001 13:52:56 -0000 Date: 1 Sep 2001 13:52:56 -0000 Message-ID: <999352376.23875477.32876.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Oct 01 13:14:20 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 74036 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Oct 2001 20:14:20 -0000 Date: 1 Oct 2001 20:14:20 -0000 Message-ID: <1001967260.46759731.43008.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. From archer@n... Wed Oct 03 09:24:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_goodwin99@h... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 16:24:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 50581 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 16:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 16:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.23.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 16:24:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 09:24:28 -0700 Received: from 192.35.232.99 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 16:24:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [192.35.232.99] Reply-To: archer@n... To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: The game Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 16:24:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2001 16:24:28.0671 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFE2E8F0:01C14C27] X-eGroups-From: "Chris Goodwin" From: "Chris Goodwin" Is the game still going? -- Chris Goodwin chris_goodwin99@h... archer1005@y... archer@n... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From wandrer@w... Wed Oct 03 10:09:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 17:09:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 71561 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 17:09:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 17:09:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kweetal.tue.nl) (131.155.2.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 17:09:47 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f93H9jP08198 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:09:45 +0200 (MDT) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:09:45 +0200 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9E4C@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] The game Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:09:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." Guess so. Only not a lot of people seem to be active at the moment. I'd say: go propose a new rule, and I'll be more than happy to vote! Yours silently, Stefan --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Goodwin [mailto:archer@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 18:24 > To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] The game > > > Is the game still going? > > -- > Chris Goodwin > chris_goodwin99@h... > archer1005@y... > archer@n... > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From archer@n... Wed Oct 10 07:07:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_goodwin99@h... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 10 Oct 2001 14:07:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 63153 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.23.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:07:56 -0700 Received: from 192.35.232.99 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:07:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [192.35.232.99] Reply-To: archer@n... To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Some proposals to get the game moving again Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:07:56 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2001 14:07:56.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5EA57B0:01C15194] X-eGroups-From: "Chris Goodwin" From: "Chris Goodwin" Proposal: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess. A country exists in a virtual game world that roughly corresponds with the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. Proposal: Trading of Countries Countries may be traded between players. A trade requires the approval of the players involved in the trade. This is specifically an exception to any rules that require the approval of all players for changes in the game state, unless those rules specifically refer to the trading of countries. Proposal: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. Proposal: Belize Chris Goodwin possesses the country of Belize. -- Chris Goodwin chris_goodwin99@h... archer1005@y... archer@n... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From archer@n... Wed Oct 10 07:34:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_goodwin99@h... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 10 Oct 2001 14:32:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 47701 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 14:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 14:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.23.20) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 14:34:46 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:34:46 -0700 Received: from 192.35.232.99 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:34:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [192.35.232.99] Reply-To: archer@n... To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Passage of a previous proposal Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:34:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2001 14:34:46.0264 (UTC) FILETIME=[B55B8F80:01C15198] X-eGroups-From: "Chris Goodwin" From: "Chris Goodwin" This proposal appears to have passed and should be added to the rules: "If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed." -- Chris Goodwin chris_goodwin99@h... archer1005@y... archer@n... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Oct 10 09:34:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84598 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 16:34:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 16:34:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 16:34:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.32] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 16:34:49 -0000 Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:34:47 -0000 Message-ID: <1002731687.474.2931.w5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: Definition of Countries and Possession Shall the following be added as a rule to our Pure Nomic? (Note possible changes in wording from e-mailed version.) Rule __: A country is a game entity that players may possess that roughly corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Oct 10 09:39:10 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89961 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 16:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 16:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 16:39:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.31] by n8.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 16:39:07 -0000 Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:39:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1002731947.189.53446.w4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: Definition of Continent

Shall the following be added to our Pure Nomic as a new rule?

The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Oct 10 09:42:32 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96233 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 16:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 16:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 16:42:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.230] by n30.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 16:42:32 -0000 Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:42:31 -0000 Message-ID: <1002732151.281.21360.w62@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: Trading of Countries Shall the following be added to the rules of our Pure Nomic? (Note any possible changes to this proposal from the e-mailed version.) Rule __: Countries may be traded between players. A trade requires the approval of the players involved in the trade. This is an exception to any rules that require the approval of all players for changes in the game state, unless those rules specifically refer to the trading of countries. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Oct 10 09:44:15 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89234 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 16:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 10 Oct 2001 16:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 16:44:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.96] by n32.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2001 16:44:14 -0000 Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:44:13 -0000 Message-ID: <1002732253.92.56457.w18@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: Belize (Note any possible changes to this proposal from the e-mailed version.) Chris Goodwin possesses the country of Belize. This proposal does not create a rule. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Thu Oct 11 03:08:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 11 Oct 2001 10:05:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 12698 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 11 Oct 2001 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 10:08:32 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([212.83.85.161]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20011011100555.DHMC7460.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:05:55 +0200 Message-ID: <000601c1523d$279148c0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D079018B52A2@s...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:11:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" Hmm. I have voted in favour, but I fear that this can make someone win only if other people don't pay attention. I believe I will be paying attention, but that depends mostly on how reliable my e-mail will be in the future (1 of my 5 addresses is down, 1 other is converted to webmail...) Yours tantivily[1], Stefan [1] Want to know what this means? Get A Word A Day from wordsmith.org --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:34 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > Proposal: Definition of Countries and > Possession > > Shall the following be added as a rule > to our Pure Nomic? (Note possible > changes in wording from e-mailed > version.) > > Rule __: > > A country is a game entity that players > may possess that roughly corresponds to > a country in the real world as of > January 1, 2001. A player may gain > possession of a country by making a > proposal of such to the > Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing > list. If said proposal passes in > accordance with the rules then in > effect, the player gains possession of > the country. > > > o Yes > o No > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From wandrer@w... Thu Oct 11 03:11:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 11 Oct 2001 10:11:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 97458 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 10:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 11 Oct 2001 10:11:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.23) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 10:11:44 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([212.83.85.161]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20011011100830.DMAI18584.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:08:30 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01c1523d$9a40b860$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D079018B52A5@s...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:15:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" Shouldn't this wait until the first rule has passed? And where in the world is Belize (I probably know it by the Dutch name...). The other rules look all right to me. Yours geographically, Stefan --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:44 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > Proposal: Belize > > (Note any possible changes to this > proposal from the e-mailed version.) > > Chris Goodwin > possesses the country of Belize. This > proposal does not create a rule. > > > o Yes > o No > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From james.johnston@s... Thu Oct 11 12:33:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 11 Oct 2001 19:33:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 47008 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 19:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2001 19:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 19:33:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by n29.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2001 19:33:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:33:34 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Definintion of Countries and Possession Message-ID: <9q4s6e+vvf2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1002731687.474.2931.w5@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 841 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 194.82.103.39 From: james.johnston@s... > Proposal: Definition of Countries and > Possession > > A country is a game entity that players > may possess that roughly corresponds to > a country in the real world as of > January 1, 2001. A player may gain > possession of a country by making a > proposal of such to the > Pure_Nomic@y... mailing > list. If said proposal passes in > accordance with the rules then in > effect, the player gains possession of > the country. I suggest an amendment: that "roughly" be removed, so the relevant sentence reads "A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001." Otherwise I'm happy to vote for this rule, but I'm afraid I can't vote for it with the word "roughly" in it, since it will make interpretation of the rule virtually impossible. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Thu Oct 11 12:40:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 11 Oct 2001 19:40:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 80637 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 19:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2001 19:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 19:40:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by n8.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2001 19:40:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:40:17 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Trading Countries Message-ID: <9q4sj1+r2d7@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1002732151.281.21360.w62@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1156 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 194.82.103.42 From: james.johnston@s... > Proposal: Trading of Countries > > Countries may be traded between > players. A trade requires the approval > of the players involved in the trade. > This is an exception to any rules that > require the approval of all players for > changes in the game state, unless those > rules specifically refer to the trading > of countries. I'm unclear about this. Is this rule intended to say that the only method of trading countries is by making an official proposal to that effect, which passes if both players concerned vote in favour? If so, this needs to be made clear. Also if this is the case, why not simplify the second part of the proposal by simply saying that this procedure is an exception to the Initial Rule? On the other hand, if any form of agreement between the two trading players is acceptable under this rule, then I wonder if it would be useful (not in this rule, but elsewhere) to put in some mechanism for infomring other players when a trade has been made (if we want such a mechanism) and for providing some kind of proof that both players agreed to a given trade in case it's called into question later. Jamie From archer@n... Thu Oct 11 17:21:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 00:21:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 40824 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 00:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 00:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 00:21:41 -0000 Received: from chrislis.nc.rr.com ([24.163.35.144]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:21:40 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011011202614.024ba390@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:28:10 -0400 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Definintion of Countries and Possession In-Reply-To: <9q4s6e+vvf2@eGroups.com> References: <1002731687.474.2931.w5@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 07:33 PM 10/11/01 +0000, james.johnston@s... wrote: >I suggest an amendment: that "roughly" be removed, so the relevant >sentence reads "A country is a game entity that players may possess >that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, >2001." I will amend the proposals to remove the word "roughly". I don't have time right at the moment. -- Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 Chris Goodwin archer@n... From archer@n... Thu Oct 11 17:30:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 00:30:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 82931 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 00:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 00:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 00:30:39 -0000 Received: from chrislis.nc.rr.com ([24.163.35.144]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:30:37 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011011202834.024bdec0@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:37:08 -0400 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Trading Countries In-Reply-To: <9q4sj1+r2d7@eGroups.com> References: <1002732151.281.21360.w62@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 07:40 PM 10/11/01 +0000, james.johnston@s... wrote: >On the other hand, if any form of agreement between the two trading >players is acceptable under this rule, then I wonder if it would be >useful (not in this rule, but elsewhere) to put in some mechanism for >infomring other players when a trade has been made (if we want such a >mechanism) and for providing some kind of proof that both players >agreed to a given trade in case it's called into question later. How about this: Countries may be traded between players. A trade requires the agreement of the players involved in the trade. This is an exception to any rules that require the approval of all players for changes in the game state, unless those rules specifically refer to the trading of countries. Private discussion of the trade between the involved players is permitted, but the trade is not final until and unless at least one of the players notifies all players in the game, by means including but not limited to a posting to the official game forum. -- Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 Chris Goodwin archer@n... From archer@n... Thu Oct 11 17:34:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 00:34:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 78136 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 00:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 00:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.55) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 00:34:23 -0000 Received: from chrislis.nc.rr.com ([24.163.35.144]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:34:20 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011011203720.02339dd0@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:40:51 -0400 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic In-Reply-To: <000f01c1523d$9a40b860$a15553d4@c...> References: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D079018B52A5@s...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 12:15 PM 10/11/01 +0200, Stefan wrote: >Shouldn't this wait until the first rule has passed? And where in the world >is Belize (I probably know it by the Dutch name...). Ahhh. I don't know its Dutch name. Belize was formerly known as British Honduras. It is in Central America and borders both Mexico and Guatemala. You can find a brief map and some information at http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bh.html -- Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 Chris Goodwin archer@n... From wandrer@w... Fri Oct 12 01:30:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 08:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 94785 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 08:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 08:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep16-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.25) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 08:30:30 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([212.83.85.161]) by amsfep16-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20011012082712.ZHOY2039.amsfep16-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:27:12 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c152f8$a12afa80$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <1002732151.281.21360.w62@yahoogroups.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011011202834.024bdec0@p...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Trading Countries Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:33:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan What forum? I thought this was a mailing list. And this would mean I can send you all a personal letter, and it would be ok, because I sent it, even if you don't receive it... Stefan --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Goodwin To: Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Trading Countries > At 07:40 PM 10/11/01 +0000, james.johnston@s... wrote: > >On the other hand, if any form of agreement between the two trading > >players is acceptable under this rule, then I wonder if it would be > >useful (not in this rule, but elsewhere) to put in some mechanism for > >infomring other players when a trade has been made (if we want such a > >mechanism) and for providing some kind of proof that both players > >agreed to a given trade in case it's called into question later. > > How about this: > > Countries may be traded between players. A trade requires the agreement of > the players involved in the trade. This is an exception to any rules that > require the approval of all players for changes in the game state, unless > those rules specifically refer to the trading of countries. Private > discussion of the trade between the involved players is permitted, but the > trade is not final until and unless at least one of the players notifies > all players in the game, by means including but not limited to a posting to > the official game forum. > > > -- > Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 > Chris Goodwin > archer@n... > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From wandrer@w... Fri Oct 12 01:46:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 08:43:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 98735 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 08:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 08:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.21) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 08:46:14 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([212.83.85.161]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20011012084204.IAY25701.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:42:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c152fa$d3a397e0$a15553d4@c...> To: References: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D079018B52A5@s...> <5.1.0.14.0.20011011203720.02339dd0@p...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:49:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I see. It is called Belize in our tongue as well. It's just that my geographical knowledge is not what it used to be (I'm sure I had to learn it for some test some day in the past) Yours looking-it-uply, Stefan --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Goodwin To: Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > At 12:15 PM 10/11/01 +0200, Stefan wrote: > >Shouldn't this wait until the first rule has passed? And where in the world > >is Belize (I probably know it by the Dutch name...). > > Ahhh. I don't know its Dutch name. Belize was formerly known as British > Honduras. It is in Central America and borders both Mexico and > Guatemala. You can find a brief map and some information at > http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bh.html > > > -- > Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 > Chris Goodwin > archer@n... > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From james.johnston@s... Fri Oct 12 07:52:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 14:48:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 89490 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 14:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 14:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 14:51:34 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 15s3ev-000373-01 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:51:33 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 15s3ev-0005tL-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:51:33 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:51:33 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Definintion of Countries and Possession Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy No hurry, but if you don't get round to it before the time limit, I'll vote against to make sure it doesn't go through by mistake. :) Jamie From james.johnston@s... Fri Oct 12 07:53:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 14:50:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 39639 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 14:49:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 14:49:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 14:53:04 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15s3gN-0001WU-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:53:03 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 15s3gN-0005uS-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:53:03 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:53:03 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Trading Countries Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > How about this: > > Countries may be traded between players. A trade requires the agreement of > the players involved in the trade. This is an exception to any rules that > require the approval of all players for changes in the game state, unless > those rules specifically refer to the trading of countries. Private > discussion of the trade between the involved players is permitted, but the > trade is not final until and unless at least one of the players notifies > all players in the game, by means including but not limited to a posting to > the official game forum. That sounds fair. I'll vote for it when it's up. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Fri Oct 12 08:01:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0); 12 Oct 2001 15:01:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 85180 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 15:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2001 15:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 15:01:26 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15s3oT-0001qv-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:01:25 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 15s3oT-0005zH-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:01:25 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:01:25 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Trading Countries & other stuff Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > And this would mean I can > send you all a personal letter, and it would be ok, because I sent it, even > if you don't receive it... I'm not sure about that. The proposal says that all other players must be notified - which is open to interpretation. If we think it's worthwhile, we can pass a rule defining more closely what notifying the other players means. In any case, I think it's fair that the trade should be official so long as someone's made a reasonable effort to inform everyone else. Because, for example, there seems to be one person on the mailing list who isn't participating in the game any more: so if you send everyone an e-mail and that one person doesn't read it, one could argue that they weren't informed - but it's their fault, not anyone else's. By the way, what should we do about this non-participant? At the moment they're preventing the rule about time limits from passing, which is really annoying. I suggest if everyone agrees, we should kick them out of the game, or we'll never get any rules passed. (Note this is *not* a rule proposal). Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 21 00:19:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 33675 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Oct 2001 07:19:33 -0000 Date: 21 Oct 2001 07:19:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1003648773.35.33674.m6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Trading of Countries Shall the following be added to the rules of our Pure Nomic? (Note any possible changes to this proposal from the e-mailed version.) Rule __: Countries may be traded between players. A trade requires the approval of the players involved in the trade. This is an exception to any rules that require the approval of all players for changes in the game state, unless those rules specifically refer to the trading of countries. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 3 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 21 00:19:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6405 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Oct 2001 07:19:38 -0000 Date: 21 Oct 2001 07:19:38 -0000 Message-ID: <1003648778.25.6402.m3@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Belize (Note any possible changes to this proposal from the e-mailed version.) Chris Goodwin possesses the country of Belize. This proposal does not create a rule. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 1 votes, 25.00% - No, 3 votes, 75.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From james.johnston@s... Sun Oct 21 10:47:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Oct 2001 17:47:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 17544 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 17:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2001 17:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 17:47:51 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 15vMhS-0005NF-02 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:47:50 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 15vMhS-0004Fk-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:47:50 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:47:50 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Trading Countries & Passing Proposals Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Trading of Countries > Rule __: > > Countries may be traded between > players. A trade requires the approval > of the players involved in the trade. > This is an exception to any rules that > require the approval of all players for > changes in the game state, unless those > rules specifically refer to the trading > of countries. > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Yes, 3 votes, 100.00% > - No, 0 votes, 0.00% I'd like to point out, before anyone assumes that the zero 'no' votes means this rule has passed, that we have not yet succeeded in passing the rule which says that if no one votes against a rule within the time limit it passes! Sorry for the complicated stuff, but this is a complicated issue. Technically, in order to pass, a proposal must still be actually voted for by *all* players. To avoid this kind of complication, can we please kick out of the game anyone who hasn't voted on the proposal to make a non-vote count as a 'yes' vote? Because unless we kick out that one inactive player, we'll never be able to pass any rules! Also, I look forward to the appearance of the amended version of the Trading Countries proposal so I can vote for it. :) Jamie From archer@n... Sun Oct 21 14:07:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Oct 2001 21:07:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 5494 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2001 21:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Mail6.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.53) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:07:52 -0000 Received: from chrislis.nc.rr.com ([24.163.35.144]) by Mail6.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 21 Oct 2001 17:07:51 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011021171302.01d22e00@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 17:14:43 -0400 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Trading Countries & Passing Proposals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 06:47 PM 10/21/01 +0100, James Johnston wrote: >To avoid this kind of complication, can we please kick out of the game >anyone who hasn't voted on the proposal to make a non-vote count as a >'yes' vote? Because unless we kick out that one inactive player, we'll >never be able to pass any rules! Technically, according to the rules, in order to kick anyone out we'd need a unanimous vote -- and the people we want to kick out aren't voting, therefore it's not unanimous. There is, however, a way around it. A game only exists because of its players. All of us who are still active can leave the previous game, start up a new game that has the same game state as the prior game except with different players, and continue from there. All it would need would be the unanimous consent of those of us still among the living. -- Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 Chris Goodwin archer@n... From james.johnston@s... Mon Oct 22 13:13:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Oct 2001 20:13:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 26346 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 20:13:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 22 Oct 2001 20:13:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 20:13:07 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 15vlRX-0000IM-01 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:13:03 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 15vlRX-00008v-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:13:03 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:13:03 +0100 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Expelling players Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > Technically, according to the rules, in order to kick anyone out we'd need > a unanimous vote -- and the people we want to kick out aren't voting, > therefore it's not unanimous. Not so. The Initial Rule (a.k.a. Rule 1) states: Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. This applies *only* to changes to the rules of the game, and since there is no rule saying that players can't be kicked out of the game, then players can be kicked out of the game. So in fact Rachel or I could kick the inactive player off without further ado, but it seems fair to give everyone a chance to voice any protests they may have. So, in perfect accordance with the rules, I can say that on Saturday I'll kick out the player who failed to vote on the rule making non-votes count as 'yes' votes unless any player objects first. They can, after all, always re-join. Of course, this raises some important issues, because it becomes apparent that Rachel and I have the power to get any rule passed by kicking off anyone who doesn't vote for it. So once we've passed the rule to count non-votes as 'yes' votes, I shall propose a rule making the expulsion of players from the game possible only by successfully passing a rule saying that that player is expelled. But let's get this inactive player out first, or we might as well give up on this game. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Sat Oct 27 05:51:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 12:51:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 91420 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 12:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 12:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 12:51:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.68] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2001 12:51:27 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:51:23 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Inactive player Message-ID: <9reakb+qgon@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 383 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 194.82.103.73 From: james.johnston@s... X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy Since no one has objected, I've kicked off the player who didn't vote for the proposal 'If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed'. Is everyone agreed that this rule, since it has been voted for by all remaining players, has now passed and should be added to the list of rules thus far? Jamie From wandrer@w... Sun Oct 28 09:37:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 17:37:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 74635 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 17:37:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 17:37:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep11-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.19) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([212.83.85.161]) by amsfep11-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20011028173706.JQRY28612.amsfep11-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:37:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c15fd7$b2b1f920$a15553d4@a...> To: References: <9reakb+qgon@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Inactive player Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:40:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I agree. Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 1:51 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Inactive player > Since no one has objected, I've kicked off the player who didn't vote > for the proposal 'If by the end of the time-limit for a given > proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is > considered passed'. > > Is everyone agreed that this rule, since it has been voted for by all > remaining players, has now passed and should be added to the list of > rules thus far? > > Jamie > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From punkbass_2000@y... Sun Oct 28 11:18:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 19:18:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 35213 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 19:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 19:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web12907.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 19:18:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20011028191826.34069.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.2.9.42] by web12907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:18:26 PST Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:18:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Inactive player To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c15fd7$b2b1f920$a15553d4@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I agree as well. --- Stefan wrote: > I agree. > > Stefan. > --- > YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. > http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 1:51 PM > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Inactive player > > > > Since no one has objected, I've kicked off the > player who didn't vote > > for the proposal 'If by the end of the time-limit > for a given > > proposal there have been no votes against said > proposal, it is > > considered passed'. > > > > Is everyone agreed that this rule, since it has > been voted for by all > > remaining players, has now passed and should be > added to the list of > > rules thus far? > > > > Jamie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Mon Oct 29 01:27:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Oct 2001 09:27:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 61767 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 09:27:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 29 Oct 2001 09:27:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 09:27:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: racheledugdale@y... Received: from [10.1.2.30] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2001 09:27:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:27:32 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Inactive player Message-ID: <9rj7e4+l6h1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20011028191826.34069.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 757 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 194.82.103.73 From: "Rachel E Dugdale" X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale Given that there's been all agreement so far, I've taken the liberty of adding the rule to the list. Of course, if anyone who hasn't commented yet *doesn't* support this, you'll have to complain to me or Jamie. Actually you'll probably have to complain to me since I think I'm the only person who can actually edit that file. :) Oh, and yes, I'm still playing, I just haven't been getting the emails in my account (some oversight on my part) and so I've just been reading everything from Jamie's account. And since all the recent country-related proposals have fallen through, Chris maybe you want to re-propose (or propose something completely different if you feel like a change!). Okay, I'm out of stuff to say now. Bye everyone. Rachel. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Oct 29 01:35:39 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 74239 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 09:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Oct 2001 09:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 09:35:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.208] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2001 09:35:21 -0000 Date: 29 Oct 2001 09:35:16 -0000 Message-ID: <1004348116.265.73763.w64@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Nov 01 12:46:25 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98083 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Nov 2001 20:46:25 -0000 Date: 1 Nov 2001 20:46:25 -0000 Message-ID: <1004647585.45084392.34835.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. Rule 8: If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Nov 08 18:17:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2873 invoked by uid 7800); 9 Nov 2001 02:17:37 -0000 Date: 9 Nov 2001 02:17:37 -0000 Message-ID: <1005272257.39.2872.m11@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Nov 13 14:04:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1785 invoked by uid 7800); 13 Nov 2001 22:04:19 -0000 Date: 13 Nov 2001 22:04:19 -0000 Message-ID: <1005689059.48.1784.m2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Definition of Continent Shall the following be added to our Pure Nomic as a new rule? Rule __: The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Nov 13 14:05:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32043 invoked by uid 7800); 13 Nov 2001 22:04:58 -0000 Date: 13 Nov 2001 22:04:58 -0000 Message-ID: <1005689098.18.32042.m5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Definition of Countries and Possession Shall the following be added as a rule to our Pure Nomic? (Note possible changes in wording from e-mailed version.) Rule __: A country is a game entity that players may possess that roughly corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 3 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 13 15:44:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 13 Nov 2001 23:44:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 4734 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 23:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2001 23:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.68) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 23:44:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: racheledugdale@y... Received: from [10.1.10.33] by n18.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2001 23:44:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:43:59 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results Message-ID: <9ssb7v+b6tc@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 594 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 172.145.204.232 From: "Rachel E Dugdale" X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale I've added the rule about expelling players to our rule list. Unfortunately, although the results only just came through from Chris' polls about continents, they were started on 10/10 and therefore according to the 10-day time limit rule, they expired on the 20th of last month. And Jamie & I only booted off the inactive player on the Saturday following the 22nd of that month. So unfortunately it didn't actually pass within its time limit, as when the time limit expired the rule about no votes against counting as passed, hadn't passed itself. Sorry for any confusion. Rachel. From archer@n... Tue Nov 13 17:19:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 14 Nov 2001 01:19:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 52995 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 01:19:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2001 01:19:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail7.nc.rr.com) (24.93.67.54) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 01:19:34 -0000 Received: from chrislis.nc.rr.com ([24.163.35.144]) by mail7.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:19:31 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20011113202637.023a9390@p...> X-Sender: archer@p... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:27:11 -0500 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results In-Reply-To: <9ssb7v+b6tc@eGroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Return-Path: archer@n... From: Chris Goodwin At 11:43 PM 11/13/01 +0000, Rachel E Dugdale wrote: >Sorry for any confusion. No problem. I'm pretty sure I set them to close on the 20th, and I'm not sure why they didn't. -- Worth two cents? http://two-cents-worth.com/?100114 Chris Goodwin archer@n... From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 28 09:07:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 17:07:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 18903 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 17:07:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 17:07:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.57) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 17:07:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2001 17:07:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:07:33 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results (Continent rules) Message-ID: <9u35kl+l554@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011113202637.023a9390@p...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 176 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 163.1.103.122 From: james.johnston@s... X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > >Sorry for any confusion. > > No problem. I'm pretty sure I set them to close on the 20th, and I'm not > sure why they didn't. Feel free to propose them again... Jamie From james.johnston@s... Wed Nov 28 09:21:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 17:21:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 26585 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 17:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 17:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.59) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 17:21:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: james.johnston@s... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2001 17:21:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:21:42 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Proposal Message-ID: <9u36f6+ootk@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1437 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 163.1.103.122 From: james.johnston@s... X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy I was just flicking through the rules so far and began to feel that it might soon become useful to have some easy way of referring to individual rules, especially if Chris manages to push through his raft of legislation about continent possession. I remembered I'd proposed something like this before and, looking in the archives, I discover that the proposal received support from four players but fell because the rest failed to vote. Normally I wouldn't attempt to revive a proposal which has already fallen once, but since it fell through apathy rather than opposition, and since I think it would provide not only a useful service but a potential source of entertainment in the naming of rules, I'm going to put it to everyone again. The wording of the original proposal was this: "Every new rule must be given a name by its proposer by the time the rule is entered in the official list of rules. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule must be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. The initial rule is exempt from the above requirements." As an unimportant matter of taste I'm inclined to change the 'must's to 'should's, but otherwise I'm happy with the wording. However, I thought I'd float it on the e-mail list to see if anyone else has any suggestions to make it clearer before I propose it. Apologies for my greater than usual verbosity. Jamie From wandrer@w... Wed Nov 28 09:45:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Nov 2001 17:45:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 1103 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 17:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2001 17:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 17:45:36 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fASHjZb04581 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:45:35 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:45:35 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9E8D@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:45:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Hmmm. Perhaps the word "relevant" should be fitted in somewhere. We don't want names like "Fred" or "rule of thumb". Though even with "relevant" in, some interesting names could be devised! Yours originally, Stefan --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: james.johnston@s... > [mailto:james.johnston@s...] > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 18:22 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal > > > I was just flicking through the rules so far and began to feel that > it might soon become useful to have some easy way of referring to > individual rules, especially if Chris manages to push through his > raft of legislation about continent possession. I remembered I'd > proposed something like this before and, looking in the archives, I > discover that the proposal received support from four players but > fell because the rest failed to vote. > > Normally I wouldn't attempt to revive a proposal which has already > fallen once, but since it fell through apathy rather than opposition, > and since I think it would provide not only a useful service but a > potential source of entertainment in the naming of rules, I'm going > to put it to everyone again. > > The wording of the original proposal was this: > > "Every new rule must be given a name by its proposer by the time the > rule is entered in the official list of rules. In the case of rules > already entered in the official list of rules, each rule must be > given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. The > initial rule is exempt from the above requirements." > > As an unimportant matter of taste I'm inclined to change the 'must's > to 'should's, but otherwise I'm happy with the wording. However, I > thought I'd float it on the e-mail list to see if anyone else has any > suggestions to make it clearer before I propose it. > > Apologies for my greater than usual verbosity. > > Jamie > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 > Refill any ink cartridge for less! > Includes black and color ink. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/kL8TtD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From racheledugdale@y... Thu Nov 29 06:35:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 14:35:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 80267 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 14:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10706.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.214) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:35:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20011129143548.36127.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:35:48 PST Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:35:48 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: RachelEDugdale@y... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9u36f6+ootk@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Rachel E Dugdale X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > The wording of the original proposal was this: > > "Every new rule must be given a name by its proposer by the > time the > rule is entered in the official list of rules. In the case of > rules > already entered in the official list of rules, each rule must > be > given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. The > initial rule is exempt from the above requirements." Perhaps the initial rule should be named "The Initial Rule", since we call it that anyway? You could write that in. :) Rachel. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 29 06:48:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 14:48:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 90943 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 14:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:48:16 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 169SU1-0004n2-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:48:13 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 169SU1-0004oB-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:48:13 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:48:13 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > Hmmm. Perhaps the word "relevant" should be fitted in somewhere. We don't > want names like "Fred" or "rule of thumb". Though even with "relevant" in, > some interesting names could be devised! I've had several entertaining and sensible games of pure nomic in which rules named Fred have featured. I don't see any pressing reason for the names to be relevant. Perhaps if it gets to a stage where names are getting too silly to bear this amendment could be made. However, I'm not too bothered about it, so if you intend to vote against the proposal unless it specifies relevance, I'll put it in. Jamie From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 29 06:55:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 14:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 1087 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 14:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:55:54 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 169SbR-0000lC-04 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:55:53 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 169SbR-0004uL-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:55:53 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:55:53 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > Perhaps the initial rule should be named "The Initial Rule", > since we call it that anyway? You could write that in. :) That's a good idea, but to prevent overcrowding this proposal I'll make another: "The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name." Jamie From james.johnston@s... Thu Nov 29 07:04:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 15:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 30079 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 15:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 15:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 15:04:02 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 169SjJ-00016r-04 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:04:01 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 169SjJ-00051b-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:04:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:04:01 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy By the way, a couple of changes have occurred to me, which I'd like feedback on. I'll give you the original wording again first: > > "Every new rule must be given a name by its proposer by the > > time the > > rule is entered in the official list of rules. In the case of > > rules > > already entered in the official list of rules, each rule must > > be > > given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. The > > initial rule is exempt from the above requirements." Now, one issue is whether it should be specified in the rule that no two rules may have the same name. To do this I'd insert a new sentence at the end of the proposal saying, "No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule." The other thought I had was whether the name the proposer intends to give their rule should be disclosed at the time of proposal, and effectively therefore become part of the proposal, so that if people like the rule but dislike the name they can choose to vote against the whole package. Otherwise the option remains open for players to pass a rule and then give it an annoying name after it's passed, and no one would be able to stop them. I think if we tried to specify this in this rule it would get over-long, so probably a new proposal to this effect would be better. Any thoughts on any of these ideas? By the way, if my proposal passes I intend to call it either "On the Naming of Rules" or "On Legislative Nomenclature". Any preferences? Jamie From punkbass_2000@y... Thu Nov 29 07:27:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 15:27:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 60772 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 15:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 15:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web12903.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.70) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 15:27:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20011129152733.27336.qmail@w...> Received: from [64.229.233.5] by web12903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:27:33 PST Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:27:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 --- James Johnston wrote: "The initial rule is exempt from the above requirements." I don't think that this line is required, as the initial rule had no proposer, so no one would need to name it. 'Now, one issue is whether it should be specified in the rule that no two rules may have the same name. To do this I'd insert a new sentence at the end of the proposal saying, "No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule."' I think this is a good rule, I would vote for it. It will help keep things less confusing. "The other thought I had was whether the name the proposer intends to give their rule should be disclosed at the time of proposal, and effectively therefore become part of the proposal, so that if people like the rule but dislike the name they can choose to vote against the whole package. Otherwise the option remains open for players to pass a rule and then give it an annoying name after it's passed, and no one would be able to stop them. I think if we tried to specify this in this rule it would get over-long, so probably a new proposal to this effect would be better." Another good rule. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would prefer not to have a rule entitled 'Punkbass_2000 is a stupid jerk who no one likes and would generally prefer not to have around', especially if this were a rule I'd have to refer to often. Jeff ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 From wandrer@w... Thu Nov 29 10:58:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 29 Nov 2001 18:57:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 60206 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 18:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2001 18:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 18:57:58 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fATIvvb22487 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:57:57 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:57:57 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9E8F@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:57:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I think your idea is quite good, and won't object to the possibility of irrelevant names. One thing I wonder, though: are all original rule proposers still in the game? "As soon as possible" might be quantified into "before the end of next year" or something. And I would be more than happy to simply have to refer to this rule as "Name Rule". Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 16:04 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New Proposal > > > By the way, a couple of changes have occurred to me, which > I'd like feedback on. I'll give you the original wording again first: > > > > "Every new rule must be given a name by its proposer by the > > > time the > > > rule is entered in the official list of rules. In the case of > > > rules > > > already entered in the official list of rules, each rule must > > > be > > > given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. The > > > initial rule is exempt from the above requirements." > > Now, one issue is whether it should be specified in the rule > that no two rules may have the same name. To do this I'd > insert a new sentence at the end of the proposal saying, "No > rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule." > > The other thought I had was whether the name the proposer > intends to give their rule should be disclosed at the time of > proposal, and effectively therefore become part of the > proposal, so that if people like the rule but dislike the > name they can choose to vote against the whole package. > Otherwise the option remains open for players to pass a rule > and then give it an annoying name after it's passed, and no > one would be able to stop them. I think if we tried to > specify this in this rule it would get over-long, so probably > a new proposal to this effect would be better. > > Any thoughts on any of these ideas? By the way, if my > proposal passes I intend to call it either "On the Naming of > Rules" or "On Legislative Nomenclature". Any preferences? > > Jamie > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 > Refill any ink cartridge for less! > Includes black and color ink. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/iHh8lD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From james.johnston@s... Sat Dec 01 09:33:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Dec 2001 17:33:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 34420 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 17:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 17:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 17:33:14 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16AE0n-0002vF-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 17:33:13 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16AE0n-0003cH-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 17:33:13 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:33:13 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Proposals Summary Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy Taking account of the various suggestions, I'm going to propose the following rules: "On Legislative Nomenclature: Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule." "On The Naming Of The Initial Rule: The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name." The suggested amendments I've accepted will be apparent. As for those suggested and not accepted, I would like to point out that if the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature' is passed, everyone will still be perfectly free to call it 'Name Rule' or anything else they like, just as they'll be free to call any rule whatever they wish - it will just provide rules with an official name which can be used to identify a rule definitively if necessary. Also, in response to our discussions, if 'On Legislative Nomenclature' is passed, I shall propose the following rule: "On Unnamed Rules: If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time." Hopefully that will give us something to do next month. :) Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 01 09:36:25 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 49006 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 17:36:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 17:36:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.72) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 17:36:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.97] by n22.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2001 17:36:25 -0000 Date: 1 Dec 2001 17:36:21 -0000 Message-ID: <1007228181.2743.13816.w19@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Legislative Nomenclature: Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 01 09:38:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15727 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2001 17:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2001 17:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.57) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2001 17:38:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.4] by n7.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2001 17:38:09 -0000 Date: 1 Dec 2001 17:38:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1007228289.861.63744.w86@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule: The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 01 15:53:55 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 54035 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Dec 2001 23:53:57 -0000 Date: 1 Dec 2001 23:53:57 -0000 Message-ID: <1007250837.56336752.18376.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 1: All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 3: It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probabillity on this list. Rule 4: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. Rule 8: If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. Rule 9: A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Dec 10 18:25:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 92340 invoked by uid 7800); 11 Dec 2001 02:25:26 -0000 Date: 11 Dec 2001 02:25:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1008037526.31.92339.m2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule: The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Dec 10 18:25:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27112 invoked by uid 7800); 11 Dec 2001 02:25:30 -0000 Date: 11 Dec 2001 02:25:30 -0000 Message-ID: <1008037530.26.27109.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Legislative Nomenclature: Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 11 04:56:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 11 Dec 2001 12:56:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 71773 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 12:56:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2001 12:56:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 12:56:49 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.164] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2001 12:56:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:56:48 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Proposal & Rule Names Message-ID: <9v4vqg+m9ve@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 907 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "grandstrategy" X-Originating-IP: 194.82.103.36 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy Well, I'm glad to see the last two proposals have passed. :) Now, as promised in my last message, here is the follow-up proposal: "On Unnamed Rules: If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time." Also, I'll now name the rules I proposed before the last couple (though some of them I'm not certain were me, so if anyone else thinks I've nicked their rule, please say so): "Rule 8: If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed." To be called "On Voting By Default". And: "Rule 9: A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled." To be called "On The Expulsion Of Players". Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 11 04:58:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23800 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2001 12:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2001 12:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.56) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2001 12:58:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.130] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2001 12:58:18 -0000 Date: 11 Dec 2001 12:58:18 -0000 Message-ID: <1008075498.96.58246.w44@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Unnamed Rules: If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 18 01:33:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 18 Dec 2001 09:33:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 26602 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 09:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 09:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.55) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 09:33:32 -0000 Received: from [216.115.97.87] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2001 09:33:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:33:31 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Rules needing names Message-ID: <9vn2hb+c2e7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 715 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "grandstrategy" X-Originating-IP: 194.82.103.39 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy By the way, here's a list of who needs to name which rules: Chris H: Rule 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. Rule 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. Stefan: Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. Remember, if the proposed rule 'On Unnamed Rules' passes on Friday, you'll have until 1st Jan to name them. And what's happened to Chris G's interesting proposals about gaining continents? Can we have those re-proposed? Jamie From wandrer@w... Tue Dec 18 04:04:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 18 Dec 2001 12:04:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 88524 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 12:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 12:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kweetal.tue.nl) (131.155.2.7) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 12:04:52 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fBIC4pP25263 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:04:51 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:04:51 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9E9A@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rules needing names Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:04:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Ok, here we go: Rule 6: Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). Name: Consistency Axiom Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. Name: Final Rule Are these ok? I think they are... Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ From james.johnston@s... Tue Dec 18 06:36:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 18 Dec 2001 14:36:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 76616 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 14:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 14:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 14:36:10 -0000 Received: from wing3.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.227] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16GLLl-0007NU-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:36:09 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing3.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16GLLg-00012h-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:36:04 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:36:04 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rules needing names Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the > winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper > definition of "possession" exists. > Name: Final Rule I'm not objecting to this name, but I just want to check that you know that 'final rule' in this context means 'the last rule', not 'rule about the end', since it seems as though you may be meaning 'rule about the end'. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 18 06:48:15 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75523 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 14:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 14:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 14:48:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.124] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2001 14:48:13 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2001 14:48:10 -0000 Message-ID: <1008686890.365.64415.w39@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Renaming Of Rules: Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 18 06:54:49 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5120 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 14:54:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 14:54:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.73) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 14:54:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.32] by n23.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2001 14:54:46 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2001 14:54:48 -0000 Message-ID: <1008687288.198.10787.w11@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 18 06:56:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 58905 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2001 14:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2001 14:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.73) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2001 14:56:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.162] by n23.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2001 14:56:15 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2001 14:56:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1008687369.208.75488.w72@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Wed Dec 19 02:51:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 19 Dec 2001 10:51:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 96693 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2001 10:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2001 10:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2001 10:51:14 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fBJApDx02760 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:51:13 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:51:12 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9E9B@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rules needing names Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:51:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan It will probably be the last rule applied in this game. After this there will be a winner... So let's keep this name! Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 15:36 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rules needing names > > > > Rule 7: The first person to possess an entire continent is the > > winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper > > definition of "possession" exists. > > Name: Final Rule > > I'm not objecting to this name, but I just want to check that > you know that 'final rule' in this context means 'the last > rule', not 'rule about the end', since it seems as though you > may be meaning 'rule about the end'. > > Jamie > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Unlimited PC-PC calling at Crystal Voice! - Only $1/Mo. > Download your free 30 day trial. Click here. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gb1xVB/GxbDAA/ySSFAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From james.johnston@s... Wed Dec 19 15:38:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 19 Dec 2001 23:38:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 55359 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2001 23:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2001 23:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2001 23:38:35 -0000 Received: from wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.230] ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 16GqIE-00068z-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:38:34 +0000 Received: from httpd by wing6.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16GqIE-0000Yn-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:38:34 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:38:34 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Rules needing names Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: grandstrategy > It will probably be the last rule applied in this game. After this there > will be a winner... So let's keep this name! I see what you mean. Fair enough. :) Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 21 12:30:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96008 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2001 20:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2001 20:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.51) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2001 20:27:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [216.115.96.134] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2001 20:27:18 -0000 Date: 21 Dec 2001 20:27:15 -0000 Message-ID: <1008966435.1274.20939.w48@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Unnamed Rules: If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 5 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 23 23:11:45 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 59852 invoked by uid 7800); 24 Dec 2001 07:11:47 -0000 Date: 24 Dec 2001 07:11:47 -0000 Message-ID: <1009177907.82607173.38396.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. From wandrer@w... Mon Dec 24 08:18:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Dec 2001 16:18:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 68065 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2001 16:18:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2001 16:18:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.23) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2001 16:18:16 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([212.83.85.161]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20011224161815.YEVS3637.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:18:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c18c97$62c4cea0$a15553d4@a...> To: Subject: Last-minute Season's Greetings Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:23:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Happy holidays to you all! If you feel a christmas card should be accompanied by a picture, check out http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=9328. Yours on his way to the new year, Stefan --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 28 18:23:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 88072 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2001 02:23:18 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2001 02:23:18 -0000 Message-ID: <1009592598.531.88071.m6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Renaming Of Rules: Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 5 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 29 00:21:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 39092 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2001 08:21:34 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2001 08:21:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1009614094.32.39085.m6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 5 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 29 00:21:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 61188 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2001 08:21:34 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2001 08:21:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1009614094.14.61187.m2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 5 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 07 07:45:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 61593 invoked by uid 7800); 7 Jan 2002 15:45:26 -0000 Date: 7 Jan 2002 15:45:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1010418326.113425615.54558.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 21 07:38:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 39340 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jan 2002 15:38:35 -0000 Date: 21 Jan 2002 15:38:35 -0000 Message-ID: <1011627515.113014599.90156.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 03 00:38:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 37879 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Feb 2002 08:38:36 -0000 Date: 3 Feb 2002 08:38:36 -0000 Message-ID: <1012725516.1415062.13840.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 17 02:09:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95758 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Feb 2002 10:09:44 -0000 Date: 17 Feb 2002 10:09:44 -0000 Message-ID: <1013940584.6884392.86844.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 03 04:58:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6110 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Mar 2002 12:58:58 -0000 Date: 3 Mar 2002 12:58:58 -0000 Message-ID: <1015160338.17037073.15997.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Apr 01 02:50:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 56009 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Apr 2002 10:50:50 -0000 Date: 1 Apr 2002 10:50:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1017658250.95749036.42668.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Apr 15 16:46:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 67656 invoked by uid 7800); 15 Apr 2002 22:44:17 -0000 Date: 15 Apr 2002 22:44:17 -0000 Message-ID: <1018910657.142156474.31250.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Apr 29 01:45:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 57329 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Apr 2002 08:45:29 -0000 Date: 29 Apr 2002 08:45:29 -0000 Message-ID: <1020069929.91828751.90289.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From wandrer@w... Mon Apr 29 06:13:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 29 Apr 2002 13:13:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 32461 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2002 13:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2002 13:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2002 13:10:52 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3TDApjl711157 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:10:51 +0200 (MDT) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:10:51 +0200 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9EEF@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:10:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan It looks like we have to name rule 2 and 5. Does anyone have a suggestion? I'd suggest "Bob" and "Darth Vader". Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Great Inventors Part 1: The Wheel. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:45 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > > > > 1: The Initial Rule > > All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. > > > 2: > > All polls will have a ten day time limit. > > > 3: On Conditional Probability > > It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional > probability on this list. > > > 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature > > The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of > rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be > discussed solely on the list. > > > 5: > > All polls should be presented in the English language. > > > 6: Consistency Axiom > > Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given > issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the > other(s). > > > 7: Final Rule > > The first person to possess an entire continent is the > winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper > definition of "possession" exists. > > > 8: On Voting By Default > > If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there > have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered > passed. > > > 9: On The Expulsion Of Players > > A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful > passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. > > > 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule > > The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', > and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under > that name. > > > 11: On Legislative Nomenclature > > Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the > time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in > the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by > its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given > a name which is already the name of another rule. > > > 12: On Unnamed Rules > > If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules > is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative > Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be > determined at the time. > > > 13: On The Renaming Of Rules > > Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only > be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. > > > 14: Definition of Continent > > The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding > virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all > of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that > continent. > > > 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. > > A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds > to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may > gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the > Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in > accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession > of the country. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Stock for $4 > and no minimums. > FREE Money 2002. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From james.johnston@s... Tue Apr 30 11:37:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 30 Apr 2002 18:37:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 5415 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2002 18:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2002 18:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2002 18:37:52 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 172cVb-0005Tb-02 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:37:51 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 172cVb-0003lg-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:37:51 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:37:51 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston In message <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9EEF@s...> Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com writes: > It looks like we have to name rule 2 and 5. Does anyone have a suggestion? > I'd suggest "Bob" and "Darth Vader". I'm quite content with that, but if possible I'd like to see them the other way round, so 2 is called Darth Vader and 5 Bob. Would this be against the spirit of your suggestion? Jamie From wandrer@w... Tue Apr 30 12:09:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 30 Apr 2002 19:09:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 23071 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2002 19:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2002 19:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2002 19:09:07 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3UJ96jl778607 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:09:06 +0200 (MDT) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:09:06 +0200 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9EF2@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:08:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I could live with that, but what are your reasons for putting them the other way round? Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Great Inventors Part 1: The Wheel. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 20:38 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > > > In message > <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9EEF@s... > .nl> Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com writes: > > It looks like we have to name rule 2 and 5. Does anyone > have a suggestion? > > I'd suggest "Bob" and "Darth Vader". > > I'm quite content with that, but if possible I'd like to see > them the other way round, so 2 is called Darth Vader and 5 > Bob. Would this be against the spirit of your suggestion? > > Jamie > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Stock for $4 > and no minimums. > FREE Money 2002. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From james.johnston@s... Wed May 01 07:05:30 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 May 2002 14:05:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 76692 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 14:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 14:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 14:05:29 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 172ujX-0003Yq-04 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 May 2002 15:05:27 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 172ujW-0007Vw-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 May 2002 15:05:26 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 15:05:26 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston In message <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9EF2@s...> Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com writes: > I could live with that, but what are your reasons for putting them the other > way round? Um, something like this: > 2: > > All polls will have a ten day time limit. Of the two rules, this seems the more likely one to be associated with an evil dictator-type guy (in a fairly calm mood). Whereas: > 5: > > All polls should be presented in the English language. This one seems more suitably represented by a fairly standard English name than by a wierd sci-fi name. Not very strong reasons, but reasons of a kind. Jamie From wandrer@w... Wed May 01 08:20:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 May 2002 15:20:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 96387 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 15:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 15:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 15:20:06 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([62.163.17.208]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020501152004.WEWN2595.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:20:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000401c1f124$2c588540$d011a33e@a...> To: References: Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:23:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I agree with them. Ok, I'll set up a poll. Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: James Johnston To: Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:05 PM Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > In message <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9EF2@s...> Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com writes: > > I could live with that, but what are your reasons for putting them the other > > way round? > > Um, something like this: > > > 2: > > > > All polls will have a ten day time limit. > > Of the two rules, this seems the more likely one to be associated with an evil dictator-type guy (in a fairly calm mood). Whereas: > > > 5: > > > > All polls should be presented in the English language. > > This one seems more suitably represented by a fairly standard English name than by a wierd sci-fi name. > > Not very strong reasons, but reasons of a kind. > > Jamie > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed May 01 08:59:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25471 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 15:59:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 15:59:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 15:59:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.181] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2002 15:59:07 -0000 Date: 1 May 2002 15:59:06 -0000 Message-ID: <1020268746.768.6108.w58@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: The rule with number 2 will be named "Darth Vader", and the rule with number 5 will be named "Bob". o I agree o I disagree To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From chris_harris2@l... Wed May 01 10:11:17 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: chris_harris2@l... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 1 May 2002 17:11:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 42707 invoked from network); 1 May 2002 17:11:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2002 17:11:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com) (212.74.114.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2002 17:11:16 -0000 Received: from [62.64.217.71] (helo=y0g6x2) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 172xdK-000NEl-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 May 2002 18:11:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c1f133$50c071e0$47d9403e@y0g6x2> To: Subject: Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:12:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Chris" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51521992 X-Yahoo-Profile: blue373_2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi.. pls could u unsubscribe me from this list, as i am still receiving emails... thanx chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat May 11 18:19:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 85168 invoked by uid 7800); 12 May 2002 01:19:52 -0000 Date: 12 May 2002 01:19:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1021166392.50.85167.m1@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: The rule with number 2 will be named "Darth Vader", and the rule with number 5 will be named "Bob". CHOICES AND RESULTS - I agree, 2 votes, 100.00% - I disagree, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - I agree - wandrer@w... - punkbass_2000@y... - I disagree For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From wandrer@w... Sun May 12 02:40:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 12 May 2002 09:40:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 82440 invoked from network); 12 May 2002 09:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2002 09:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kweetal.tue.nl) (131.155.2.7) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2002 09:40:12 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4C9e6nf11288280 for ; Sun, 12 May 2002 11:40:06 +0200 (MDT) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 12 May 2002 11:40:11 +0200 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9F02@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:40:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Good... it's passed. But only two votes? Where is everyone else? Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Great Inventors Part 1: The Wheel. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 03:20 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > > > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: The rule with number 2 will be > named "Darth Vader", and the rule with > number 5 will be named "Bob". > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - I agree, 2 votes, 100.00% > - I disagree, 0 votes, 0.00% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - I agree > - wandrer@w... > - punkbass_2000@y... > - I disagree > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Stock for $4 > and no minimums. > FREE Money 2002. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From james.johnston@s... Sun May 12 14:31:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 12 May 2002 21:31:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 71841 invoked from network); 12 May 2002 21:31:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2002 21:31:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2002 21:31:36 -0000 Received: from wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.228]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1770wJ-0007ce-04 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 12 May 2002 22:31:35 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing4.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1770wJ-0002KH-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 12 May 2002 22:31:35 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:31:35 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston In message <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D0790F9F02@s...> Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com writes: > Good... it's passed. But only two votes? Where is everyone else? I'm here, sorry, I forgot to vote. I should point out that technically it doesn't mean it's passed at all, and in fact there was never anything which could pass or fail, because it wasn't a proposal to make a rule. But it doesn't really matter, because it's entirely up to the moderator whether these new rule names are entered in the record or not, unless we decide some other procedure. But I agree that they're good names for the rules, and let's put them in. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue May 14 03:29:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7987 invoked by uid 7800); 14 May 2002 10:29:51 -0000 Date: 14 May 2002 10:29:51 -0000 Message-ID: <1021372191.184490286.17483.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon May 27 19:34:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22012 invoked by uid 7800); 28 May 2002 02:34:06 -0000 Date: 28 May 2002 02:34:06 -0000 Message-ID: <1022553246.155945607.87171.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Jun 11 11:22:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20721 invoked by uid 7800); 11 Jun 2002 18:22:55 -0000 Date: 11 Jun 2002 18:22:55 -0000 Message-ID: <1023819775.212875051.47040.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jun 24 16:41:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 92045 invoked by uid 7800); 24 Jun 2002 23:41:36 -0000 Date: 24 Jun 2002 23:41:36 -0000 Message-ID: <1024962096.145595906.77156.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jul 08 20:31:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 88374 invoked by uid 7800); 9 Jul 2002 03:31:19 -0000 Date: 9 Jul 2002 03:31:19 -0000 Message-ID: <1026185479.159378708.18564.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From james.johnston@s... Tue Jul 09 05:08:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 9 Jul 2002 12:08:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 58413 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2002 12:08:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2002 12:08:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.180) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2002 12:08:24 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 17Rtn4-00065m-03 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:08:22 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Rtn4-0003Hm-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:08:22 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 13:08:22 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: The Initial Rule: A problem Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston Hi all (whoever's still there). We have a problem with the Initial Rule. Shocking, I know, since this rule has been our support and mainstay for the whole game, and we've come to rely on and revere it. But the wording's wonky. It currently reads: > 1: The Initial Rule > > All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. We all know what this is *supposed* to mean, but in fact grammatically what it actually means is that all the players have to agree to any changes to the rules which may occur - i.e. if someone changes the rules without consulting anyone else, we all have to agree to it afterwards! My suggestion is to propose to amend the Initial Rule to read: 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. Unless anyone has any better suggestions, I'll propose this when I get round to it. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jul 22 23:10:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 53539 invoked by uid 7800); 23 Jul 2002 06:10:02 -0000 Date: 23 Jul 2002 06:10:02 -0000 Message-ID: <1027404602.168901227.90540.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Jul 23 15:33:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 39220 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2002 22:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2002 22:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2002 22:33:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2002 22:33:18 -0000 Date: 23 Jul 2002 22:33:13 -0000 Message-ID: <1027463593.195.49892.w7@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: PROPOSAL TO AMEND RULE 1 TO: 1. The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=947503 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Sun Jul 28 10:57:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 28 Jul 2002 17:57:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 87308 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2002 17:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2002 17:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kweetal.tue.nl) (131.155.2.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2002 17:57:36 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6SHvbOI18247333 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:57:37 +0200 (MDT) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3WPBWCK2>; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:57:35 +0200 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910B93@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] The Initial Rule: A problem Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:57:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Yeah, I had to think this over really hard, but you're right. I'll head for the voting right now. Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Great Inventors Part 1: The Wheel. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 14:08 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] The Initial Rule: A problem > > > Hi all (whoever's still there). > > We have a problem with the Initial Rule. Shocking, I know, > since this rule has been our support and mainstay for the > whole game, and we've come to rely on and revere it. But the > wording's wonky. It currently reads: > > > 1: The Initial Rule > > > > All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. > > We all know what this is *supposed* to mean, but in fact > grammatically what it actually means is that all the players > have to agree to any changes to the rules which may occur - > i.e. if someone changes the rules without consulting anyone > else, we all have to agree to it afterwards! My suggestion is > to propose to amend the Initial Rule to read: > > > 1: The Initial Rule > > The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. > > > Unless anyone has any better suggestions, I'll propose this > when I get round to it. > > Jamie > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Free $5 Love Reading > Risk Free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Aug 03 18:27:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 61152 invoked by uid 7800); 4 Aug 2002 01:27:41 -0000 Date: 4 Aug 2002 01:27:41 -0000 Message-ID: <1028424461.20.61151.m6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: PROPOSAL TO AMEND RULE 1 TO: 1. The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 3 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Aug 06 10:47:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 62362 invoked by uid 7800); 6 Aug 2002 17:47:10 -0000 Date: 6 Aug 2002 17:47:10 -0000 Message-ID: <1028656030.210729843.3685.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule All rule changes must be agreed to by all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From zenomic@m... Tue Aug 06 14:09:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 6 Aug 2002 21:09:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 89361 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 21:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2002 21:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.channelogics.com) (216.162.32.238) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 21:09:08 -0000 Received: from JMLYLELAPTOP (jmlylelaptop.channelogics.com [192.168.111.161]) by mail.channelogics.com (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g76L8v314728 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 17:08:57 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 17:08:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c23d8d$7b452f90$a16fa8c0@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <1028656030.210729843.3685.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-MailScanner_(feel_the_love...): Found to be clean From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Hello, I'd like to join your game. I would like to propose a rule shortly, but I will submit it here first, for your perusal. Ideas and recommendations are welcome. Title: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. How's that? I know it's a little wordy, but it seems specific enough to handle all questions, and not too specific to be un-understandable or unworkable. Any thoughts? Martin zenomic@m... From james.johnston@s... Thu Aug 08 02:50:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 8 Aug 2002 09:50:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 3678 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 09:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2002 09:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.2) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 09:50:43 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17cjwB-0001kY-01 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:50:35 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17cjwA-0000hU-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:50:34 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:50:34 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposed 'Pork-Barrel Rule' Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston > > Title: Pork-Barrel Rule > > When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country > as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular > wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: > ", where is the name of a country as > defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the > proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to > be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is > entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be > made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of > on ," where is the proposer's preferred > title, is the name of the country in question, and date > is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. > > I like it. :) Yes, I think I'd vote for that. One thought: It's not worth amending the proposal to include this formally, but I'd like it if informally we were to agree that if anyone works out how to get an acute accent onto the letter E in their 'Coup d'etat' clause, that would still be valid, although it would then not be exactly in the form specified. You seem to be right in tune with the informal procedures we've developed - e.g. announcing a proposal before submitting it, so people can suggest changes. Have you played nomic before? Anyway, welcome aboard. As you may have noticed, it's quite quiet at the moment, but there are occasional fits of activity. Jamie From zenomic@m... Thu Aug 08 21:42:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 9 Aug 2002 04:42:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 71246 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 04:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2002 04:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 04:42:53 -0000 Received: from hh1123115.direcpc.com ([206.71.123.115] helo=JMLYLELAPTOP) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17d1bo-0007QN-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:42:46 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Proposed 'Pork-Barrel Rule' Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:42:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c23f5f$2528a960$5000a8c0@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I'm quite willing to leave the "Coup d'etat" part as is and I will not have a problem with someone using "Coup d=92=E9tat". I must note, however that I also don't have a problem with someone else in the future requiring observance of the technicality. Informal agreements are all well and good, but I don't think they can stand up to someone pointing to a rule and saying, "But it says..." =20 After all, it's a game about rules. It seems kind of silly not to follow them. =20 Have I played before? No. I first discovered the game on the internet about 8 years ago, but I never got around to playing. I have no idea why not. It is SHOCKING to me that I actually forgot about this whole thing until about a week ago. Since then I have been looking through various rule sets that I've found... I also read most of the archives from this group. I just love rules. I'm a freak. I've bought lotso' games over the years and done nothing with them besides read the rules. =20 I'm not sure how I feel about this idea of Pure Nomic. I like the structure that initial rule sets provide. It seems awfully messy without that rule base. I'm sure I'll have butt loads of fun though. =20 -- Martin=20 =20 > > Title: Pork-Barrel Rule >=20 > When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country > as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular > wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: > ", where is the name of a country as > defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the > proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to > be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is > entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be > made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of > on ," where is the proposer's preferred > title, is the name of the country in question, and date > is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. >=20 > I like it. :) Yes, I think I'd vote for that. One thought: It's not worth amending the proposal to include this formally, but I'd like it if informally we were to agree that if anyone works out how to get an acute accent onto the letter E in their 'Coup d'etat' clause, that would still be valid, although it would then not be exactly in the form specified. You seem to be right in tune with the informal procedures we've developed - e.g. announcing a proposal before submitting it, so people can suggest changes. Have you played nomic before? Anyway, welcome aboard. As you may have noticed, it's quite quiet at the moment, but there are occasional fits of activity. Jamie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=09 {short description of image} Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service .=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From james.johnston@s... Sat Aug 10 02:11:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 10 Aug 2002 09:11:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 26515 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 09:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2002 09:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.1) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 09:11:54 -0000 Received: from wing3.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.227]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 17dSHp-00007D-02 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:11:53 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing3.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17dSHp-0004rM-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:11:53 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:11:52 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Proposed 'Pork-Barrel Rule' Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston Yeah, I see your point about informal agreements, but I think sometimes one can over-legislate. I guess it's a question of interpretation, really - no rule can cover every possible circumstance, so as well as the actual text of the rule there has to be a certain amount of interpretation, which in a court is up to the judge, but since we haven't any specific mechanisms like judges to do the interpretation, it has to be done by consensus. In fact so far I don't think there's been any disagreement over interpretation, but one day I expect there shall be. So I suppose what I was saying is that I'd favour a moderately loose interpretation of the word 'exact' in your proposal. Anyway, it will probably never be an issue. :) I've heard of non-pure nomic (with a set of initial rules), but I've never tried it, so I'm not sure how it compares. What sort of rules do games tend to start with? Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Aug 13 22:10:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69380 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 05:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2002 05:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 05:10:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Aug 2002 05:10:53 -0000 Date: 14 Aug 2002 05:10:49 -0000 Message-ID: <1029301849.2557.75851.w26@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Title: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. o Yea o Ney To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=960671 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From zenomic@m... Tue Aug 13 22:30:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Aug 2002 05:30:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 11837 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 05:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2002 05:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 05:30:55 -0000 Received: from hh1123115.direcpc.com ([206.71.123.115] helo=JMLYLELAPTOP) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17eqk6-0007l8-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:30:51 -0400 Sender: "Martin Lyle" To: Subject: Original Initial Set Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:29:35 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c24350$f1fd28e0$5000a8c0@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Martin Lyle" From: "Martin Lyle" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Well, here is THE Initial Set, created by Peter Suber, the inventor of Nomic. http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#initial%20set Of course, many people make their own Initial Set, either based on these or just to give a structure to the beginning of the game. J. Martin Lyle jmlyle@m... -----Original Message----- From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 5:12 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Proposed 'Pork-Barrel Rule' Yeah, I see your point about informal agreements, but I think sometimes one can over-legislate. I guess it's a question of interpretation, really - no rule can cover every possible circumstance, so as well as the actual text of the rule there has to be a certain amount of interpretation, which in a court is up to the judge, but since we haven't any specific mechanisms like judges to do the interpretation, it has to be done by consensus. In fact so far I don't think there's been any disagreement over interpretation, but one day I expect there shall be. So I suppose what I was saying is that I'd favour a moderately loose interpretation of the word 'exact' in your proposal. Anyway, it will probably never be an issue. :) I've heard of non-pure nomic (with a set of initial rules), but I've never tried it, so I'm not sure how it compares. What sort of rules do games tend to start with? Jamie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Tue Aug 13 22:44:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Aug 2002 05:44:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 14487 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 05:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2002 05:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 05:44:16 -0000 Received: from hh1123115.direcpc.com ([206.71.123.115] helo=JMLYLELAPTOP) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17eqx2-0002PB-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:44:14 -0400 To: Subject: Greg Brady Rule Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:42:56 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c24355$75c08e70$5000a8c0@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001301c24350$f1fd28e0$5000a8c0@w...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is one I plan to propose. Comments? Title: Greg Brady Rule ("I meant what I said") A rule proposal is in written form when it is voted on in the Yahoo Groups Poll. The wording of the proposal as it is voted on is the wording that will be entered into the set or rules, if the proposal is passed. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wandrer@w... Wed Aug 14 09:52:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 14 Aug 2002 16:52:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 34663 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 16:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Aug 2002 16:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 16:52:42 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([62.163.17.208]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020814165241.ZBEQ29955.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@vanZwam>; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:52:41 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c243b3$f96ef280$d011a33e@a...> To: "IPHO__eGroup" , Subject: Voice acting Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:59:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Hello people, Completely off-topic, but important to me. For a new LEGO animation I am going to need voice actors. These actors record text they're giving with a pc microphone. These voices are then sent to me, and I can then start animating. Because I only have one voice, that can be bent, but not changed, I'm asking for your help! If you have some time (at most an hour), and would like to do a voice, check out the following website: http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/lego/voiceact.html Please e-mail me (personally, not through this group) if anything is unclear, and with any trouble you might run into. Thanks a lot! Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ From wandrer@w... Thu Aug 15 04:35:47 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 15 Aug 2002 11:35:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 46198 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 11:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2002 11:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kweetal.tue.nl) (131.155.2.7) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 11:35:46 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by kweetal.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g7FBZmOI20901747 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:35:48 +0200 (MDT) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:35:44 +0200 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910B9F@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Greg Brady Rule Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:35:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." From: "Zwam, S.H.M.v." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Hmmm. We've been through this before, but somehow it hasn't made it into a rule. I think it's quite ok. Except for the 'in written form'... I don't know if that's still a valid way of putting things in this digital age. Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Great Inventors Part 1: The Wheel. http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Lyle [mailto:zenomic@m...] > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 07:43 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Greg Brady Rule > > > > > Here is one I plan to propose. Comments? > > > > Title: Greg Brady Rule ("I meant what I said") > > A rule proposal is in written form when it is voted on in the Yahoo > Groups Poll. The wording of the proposal as it is voted on is the > wording that will be entered into the set or rules, if the proposal is > passed. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From james.johnston@s... Thu Aug 15 14:47:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 15 Aug 2002 21:47:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 18793 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 21:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2002 21:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.2) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 21:47:54 -0000 Received: from wing3.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.227]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17fSTB-0002pL-01 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:47:53 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing3.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17fSTB-0000hD-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:47:53 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:47:53 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Greg Brady Rule Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston > Title: Greg Brady Rule ("I meant what I said") > > A rule proposal is in written form when it is voted on in the Yahoo > Groups Poll. I don't really understand the purpose of stating this. Um. No, I just tried again and I really can't see the point - please explain! > The wording of the proposal as it is voted on is the > wording that will be entered into the set or rules, if the proposal is > passed. I can see the sense in having a rule or set of rules prescribing exactly the procedures by which rules are made, but I wonder if it would be worth doing it more comprehensively. Maybe it's just because I tend to say more when less will do, but I feel if we want to clarify these procedures we might as well do it at length, setting out each stage clearly and specifying who is to do what in order to get from a proposal to a rule. But I don't want to go hijacking your proposal and adding things to it you don't think it needs, so if you want to just post this proposal as it is I'll vote for it (once I understand the first sentence) and then we can think about doing the other stuff. Jamie From zenomic@m... Thu Aug 15 22:29:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 16 Aug 2002 05:29:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 27307 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 05:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2002 05:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mclean.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.57) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 05:29:42 -0000 Received: from hh1123115.direcpc.com ([206.71.123.115] helo=JMLYLELAPTOP) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17fZg0-0004ci-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 01:29:38 -0400 To: Subject: Revised Greg Brady Rule & Pollish Preferences Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 01:28:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c244e5$bdbffa30$5000a8c0@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I basically agree that it's not enough. Let me try again, and I'm quite open to suggestions, including a complete rewrite proposal that anyone cares to offer. --------- Title: Greg Brady Rule ("I meant what I said") When a proposal has been voted on and passed, the wording of the proposal as it is voted on is the wording that will be entered into the set of rules. --------- By the way, I ganked the idea about "written form" from another rule that I have seen from other games. Basically it establishes the wording of the proposal before voting, as opposed to voting on something before the wording is finalized. That is obviously not an issue with the Poll format that we are using here. Also, another rule, just for kicks. --------- Title: Pollish Preferences A proposal is officially proposed for voting by creating a Yahoo Groups Poll in the Pure_Nomic Group. The following guidelines should be followed when creating a poll: 1) The content of the proposal is entered in the area labeled "Enter Question." 2) One affirmative and one negative response are given as "choices." 3) "Vote for one choice" should be selected. 4) "Display results when poll is closed" should be selected. 5) "Display voter identity with each vote" should be selected. 6) If voting currently has a time limit, the poll conclusion date should be set in accordance. 7) "Send results to the entire group via email" should be selected. --------- Any ideas, or other preferences for the Poll options? I like these obviously. Note that it doesn't limit the number of voting choices to just affirmative or negative, in case of some situation which would require or make use of more options (although I can't think of any situation where this might occur). -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:48 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Greg Brady Rule > Title: Greg Brady Rule ("I meant what I said") > > A rule proposal is in written form when it is voted on in the Yahoo > Groups Poll. I don't really understand the purpose of stating this. Um. No, I just tried again and I really can't see the point - please explain! > The wording of the proposal as it is voted on is the > wording that will be entered into the set or rules, if the proposal is > passed. I can see the sense in having a rule or set of rules prescribing exactly the procedures by which rules are made, but I wonder if it would be worth doing it more comprehensively. Maybe it's just because I tend to say more when less will do, but I feel if we want to clarify these procedures we might as well do it at length, setting out each stage clearly and specifying who is to do what in order to get from a proposal to a rule. But I don't want to go hijacking your proposal and adding things to it you don't think it needs, so if you want to just post this proposal as it is I'll vote for it (once I understand the first sentence) and then we can think about doing the other stuff. Jamie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From james.johnston@s... Sun Aug 18 09:42:00 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 18 Aug 2002 16:42:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 41994 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2002 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2002 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (129.67.1.2) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2002 16:41:59 -0000 Received: from wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.226]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17gT7m-000609-01 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:41:58 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing2.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17gT7m-000593-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:41:58 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:41:58 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Revised Greg Brady Rule & Pollish Preferences Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamie_k_johnston > --------- > > Title: Greg Brady Rule ("I meant what I said") > > When a proposal has been voted on and passed, the wording of the > proposal as it is voted on is the wording that will be entered into the > set of rules. > --------- Yeah, I'd vote for that. > --------- > Title: Pollish Preferences > > A proposal is officially proposed for voting by creating a Yahoo Groups > Poll in the Pure_Nomic Group. The following guidelines should be > followed when creating a poll: > 1) The content of the proposal is entered in the area labeled "Enter > Question." > 2) One affirmative and one negative response are given as "choices." > 3) "Vote for one choice" should be selected. > 4) "Display results when poll is closed" should be selected. > 5) "Display voter identity with each vote" should be selected. > 6) If voting currently has a time limit, the poll conclusion date > should be set in accordance. > 7) "Send results to the entire group via email" should be selected. > --------- My political leanings are towards democracy, so I'd prefer to have a secret ballot, i.e. in clause 5 to specify that voter identity not be displayed. I'm sure we're unlikely ever to have corruption or intimidation occur, but in principle secret ballots are an easy way to avoid this, especially as in controversial debates intimidation can be unintentional. Otherwise, this seems like a good rule. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Aug 20 19:38:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 39641 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Aug 2002 02:38:50 -0000 Date: 21 Aug 2002 02:38:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1029897530.242629958.58100.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Sep 03 21:25:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 44936 invoked by uid 7800); 4 Sep 2002 04:25:06 -0000 Date: 4 Sep 2002 04:25:06 -0000 Message-ID: <1031113506.249005760.60950.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Sep 11 09:12:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 42699 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 16:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 16:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 16:12:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2002 16:12:54 -0000 Date: 11 Sep 2002 16:12:53 -0000 Message-ID: <1031760773.263.75552.w45@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Title: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yea, 5 votes, 100.00% - Ney, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yea - wandrer@w... - zenomic@m... - james.johnston@s... - punkbass_2000@y... - racheledugdale@y... - Ney For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From james.johnston@s... Wed Sep 11 09:33:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: james.johnston@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 11 Sep 2002 16:33:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 76116 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 16:33:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 16:33:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oxmail.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.2.33) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 16:33:25 -0000 Received: from wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.0.225]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17pAQe-0001pt-04 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:33:24 +0100 Received: from httpd by wing1.herald.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17pAQe-00082W-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:33:24 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.103 (Entity 4.115) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:33:24 +0100 (BST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results &c Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: James Johnston From: James Johnston X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=51658537 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Well done Martin, your rule seems to have been popular. It's worth pointing out to everyone that the poll ran over the time limit, so any votes cast after the time limit are presumably technically invalid, but this doesn't actually make a difference to the outcome. I closed the poll myself, since I (along with Rachel) am a moderator, but usual practice is for people making proposals to set the poll to close after ten days so that this is unnecessary. I tend to try to avoid using moderator powers if possible, as there are no rules to govern moderators' use of their powers as such. It should also be noted that this over-running means that we've had our first (I think) case of a rule being, um, shall we say 'infringed'? Of course it doesn't matter in this case, but it made me wonder, does anyone think it's worth formulating some rules about what to do if a rule is broken? Jamie From zenomic@m... Wed Sep 11 18:55:13 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 12 Sep 2002 01:55:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 6815 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 01:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2002 01:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 01:55:12 -0000 Received: from hh1123115.direcpc.com ([206.71.123.115] helo=BORGCON) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17pJCC-0000g9-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:55:07 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Poll results &c Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:54:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000101c259ff$690d0a30$4600a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I definitely set the expire date for the poll. I had noticed that someone else's hadn't expired properly before, so I made certain it was set up correctly. I kept meaning to go back and close it manually after it hadn't closed on the right date, but I never got around to it.... Thanks for keeping it going.... -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: James Johnston [mailto:james.johnston@s...] Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 12:33 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Poll results &c Well done Martin, your rule seems to have been popular. It's worth pointing out to everyone that the poll ran over the time limit, so any votes cast after the time limit are presumably technically invalid, but this doesn't actually make a difference to the outcome. I closed the poll myself, since I (along with Rachel) am a moderator, but usual practice is for people making proposals to set the poll to close after ten days so that this is unnecessary. I tend to try to avoid using moderator powers if possible, as there are no rules to govern moderators' use of their powers as such. It should also be noted that this over-running means that we've had our first (I think) case of a rule being, um, shall we say 'infringed'? Of course it doesn't matter in this case, but it made me wonder, does anyone think it's worth formulating some rules about what to do if a rule is broken? Jamie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Sep 12 16:31:48 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 12 Sep 2002 23:31:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 59533 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2002 23:31:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2002 23:31:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21510.mail.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.59) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2002 23:31:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20020912233147.32883.qmail@w...> Received: from [152.163.189.66] by web21510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 00:31:47 BST Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 00:31:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Poll results &c To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000101c259ff$690d0a30$4600a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hm. Strange. Okay, well, I'll keep an eye open in case it happens again. Jamie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Sep 17 22:19:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 86670 invoked by uid 7800); 18 Sep 2002 05:19:55 -0000 Date: 18 Sep 2002 05:19:55 -0000 Message-ID: <1032326395.252294611.92692.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 29 15:19:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 38431 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Sep 2002 22:19:37 -0000 Date: 29 Sep 2002 22:19:37 -0000 Message-ID: <1033337977.54276314.44216.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 13 10:28:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 86882 invoked by uid 7800); 13 Oct 2002 17:28:09 -0000 Date: 13 Oct 2002 17:28:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1034530089.36789121.5046.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Oct 13 15:02:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 13 Oct 2002 22:02:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 53874 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2002 22:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Oct 2002 22:02:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21508.mail.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2002 22:02:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20021013220243.68749.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.124] by web21508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:02:43 BST Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:02:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: Proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1034530089.36789121.5046.m12@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A proposal for discussion: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. Any suggestions before I put the proposal on the site? Jamie www.strategikon.org --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wandrer@w... Mon Oct 14 02:45:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 14 Oct 2002 09:45:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28053 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2002 09:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2002 09:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.28) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2002 09:45:23 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([62.163.17.208]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20021014094522.QSNW1260.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:45:22 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c27366$804ec6e0$d011a33e@a...> To: References: <20021013220243.68749.qmail@w...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Proposal Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:45:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan You should add a clause about ties. "When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by first name, and the last one will be picked". Something like that. Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: Animation Class Lesson 1. http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/wandrer/animationclass/animclass.avi Right-click and Save target As... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Johnston" To: Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:02 AM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Proposal > > A proposal for discussion: > > On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: > Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. > > Any suggestions before I put the proposal on the site? > > Jamie > > > > > www.strategikon.org > > > > > --------------------------------- > Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Oct 14 11:33:07 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 14 Oct 2002 18:33:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 73175 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2002 18:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2002 18:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web21502.mail.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.13) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2002 18:29:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20021014182954.18961.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.124] by web21502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:29:54 BST Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:29:54 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001201c27366$804ec6e0$d011a33e@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan wrote: > You should add a clause about ties. "When there are several players who meet > the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by first name, and > the last one will be picked". Something like that. Fair enough, though that seems a little straightforward. How about this: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 17 shall be followed. That sound okay? Jamie www.strategikon.org --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 27 08:33:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 45767 invoked by uid 7800); 27 Oct 2002 16:33:44 -0000 Date: 27 Oct 2002 16:33:44 -0000 Message-ID: <1035736424.33523653.71729.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Nov 07 12:29:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 66485 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 20:29:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2002 20:29:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 20:29:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.253] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2002 20:29:10 -0000 Date: 7 Nov 2002 20:29:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1036700949.358.11392.w74@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 17 shall be followed. o In Favour o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=999572 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 10 09:55:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21641 invoked by uid 7800); 10 Nov 2002 17:55:27 -0000 Date: 10 Nov 2002 17:55:27 -0000 Message-ID: <1036950927.34826638.29926.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. From wandrer@w... Sun Nov 10 10:27:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Nov 2002 18:27:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 53699 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 18:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Nov 2002 18:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 18:27:23 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gAAIRMcA23608516 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:27:22 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:27:22 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910BEF@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:27:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Is anyone going to update this list? Rachel? You there? --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Animation Class: Lesson 1 http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 18:55 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt > > > > 1: The Initial Rule > > The rules may not be changed without the agreement of > all players. > > > 2: Darth Vader > > All polls will have a ten day time limit. > > > 3: On Conditional Probability > > It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional > probability on this list. > > > 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature > > The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of > rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be > discussed solely on the list. > > > 5: Bob > > All polls should be presented in the English language. > > > 6: Consistency Axiom > > Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given > issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the > other(s). > > > 7: Final Rule > > The first person to possess an entire continent is the > winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper > definition of "possession" exists. > > > 8: On Voting By Default > > If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there > have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered > passed. > > > 9: On The Expulsion Of Players > > A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful > passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. > > > 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule > > The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', > and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under > that name. > > > 11: On Legislative Nomenclature > > Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the > time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in > the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by > its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given > a name which is already the name of another rule. > > > 12: On Unnamed Rules > > If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules > is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative > Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be > determined at the time. > > > 13: On The Renaming Of Rules > > Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only > be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. > > > 14: Definition of Continent > > The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding > virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all > of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that > continent. > > > 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. > > A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds > to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may > gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the > Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in > accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession > of the country. > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From racheledugdale@y... Wed Nov 13 07:40:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 13 Nov 2002 15:40:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 76941 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 15:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2002 15:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10701.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.209) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 15:40:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20021113154049.92891.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:40:49 GMT Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:40:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] File - The Rules Thus Far.txt To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910BEF@s...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale --- "Zwam, S.H.M. van" wrote: > Is anyone going to update this list? > > Rachel? You there? I'm here! We're just working out which motions have passed, and Jamie's making a nice list of all the proposals we've had (passed or failed) in the game so it'll be easier to tell in future. Glad to know you're still around :) Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Nov 17 09:19:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 17 Nov 2002 17:19:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 38379 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 17:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2002 17:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 17:19:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.190] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2002 17:19:39 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:19:38 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: My current proposal; and a NEW FILE Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 951 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston" X-Originating-IP: 163.1.103.122 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, Due to the fact that, as Stefan pointed out, the rules list wasn't updated, I miscalculated when I wrote in my current proposal that procedures would be outlined in rule 17. If this proposal passes, it will *be* rule 17, and contains none of the procedures necessary under its own terms. So I've voted against it, and will shortly re- propose it in exactly the same form except that '17' will be changed to '18'. An a separate point, I've created a new file on the yahoogroups site called 'Archive of Proposals' - this is a list of every proposal which has been made in the game, how the voting went and things like that. Please check it to make sure it contains no inaccuracies, and to tell me who the various [unknown]s are (some polls have no record of who created them). When everyone is satisfied that this file is correct, we can delete all the old closed polls from the 'polls' section of the site, to save space. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 17 09:20:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 91121 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 17:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2002 17:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 17:20:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Nov 2002 17:20:52 -0000 Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:20:51 -0000 Message-ID: <1037553651.139.69013.w3@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1003488 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 17 16:13:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84854 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 00:13:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2002 00:13:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 00:13:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2002 00:13:34 -0000 Date: 18 Nov 2002 00:13:30 -0000 Message-ID: <1037578410.166.88866.w42@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 17 shall be followed. CHOICES AND RESULTS - In Favour, 1 votes, 33.33% - Against, 2 votes, 66.67% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Nov 17 16:28:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 18 Nov 2002 00:28:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 11348 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 00:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2002 00:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 00:28:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.159] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Nov 2002 00:28:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:28:41 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: More on the new archive Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 650 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston" X-Originating-IP: 163.1.103.122 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello again. Two things: 1. Rachel's kindly HTML'd the Archive of Proposals so it's easier to read, and you can find that version at http://nomic.strategikon.org. 2. Does anyone remember what happened the first time 'Definition of Countries and Possession' and 'Definition of Continent' were proposed? I put them in the archive as 'failed', because they didn't pass and weren't entered in the list of rules, but according to the rules in force at the time, they *should* have passed, as no one voted against them. Were they withdrawn? I notice the wording is slightly different in the second versions, which were definitely passed. Jamie From wandrer@w... Mon Nov 18 12:49:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 18 Nov 2002 20:49:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 15764 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 20:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2002 20:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 20:49:36 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gAIKnZcA24265055 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:49:35 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:49:35 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910C07@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] More on the new archive Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:49:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan 2. You might be able to find it in the message archive, as it exists on the groups.yahoo.com website. I don't have time right now to do so myself, but will be more active in this by the start of next year. Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Animation Class: Lesson 1 http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: jamiekjohnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 01:29 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] More on the new archive > > > Hello again. > > Two things: > > 1. Rachel's kindly HTML'd the Archive of Proposals so it's easier to > read, and you can find that version at http://nomic.strategikon.org. > > 2. Does anyone remember what happened the first time 'Definition of > Countries and Possession' and 'Definition of Continent' were > proposed? I put them in the archive as 'failed', because they didn't > pass and weren't entered in the list of rules, but according to the > rules in force at the time, they *should* have passed, as no one > voted against them. Were they withdrawn? I notice the wording is > slightly different in the second versions, which were definitely > passed. > > Jamie > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Nov 18 16:18:44 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Nov 2002 00:18:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 31119 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 00:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 00:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41212.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.45) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:18:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20021119001842.87093.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.121] by web41212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:18:42 GMT Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:18:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] More on the new archive To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910C07@s...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston We think we've worked out what it might have been. There was that rule I proposed ages ago to make not voting count as a 'yes' vote, but not everyone voted on it, so it just sat there for about a year (because we also hadn't passed the one about time-limits yet). So eventually we booted off the person who hadn't voted, and then said it had passed. But in the mean time those 'definition' rules had failed, because although the voting by default one had been proposed, it hadn't passed yet. So it's all okay, mostly. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Nov 18 16:33:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79431 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 00:33:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 00:33:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:33:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.191] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2002 00:33:03 -0000 Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:33:02 -0000 Message-ID: <1037665982.315.43945.w9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Untying Of Ties: In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1004146 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Nov 18 16:37:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27779 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 00:37:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 00:37:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:37:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Nov 2002 00:37:22 -0000 Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:37:19 -0000 Message-ID: <1037666239.244.71812.w40@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Secret Ballots: Polls must be conducted as secret ballots, by selecting the 'Do not display voter identity' option on the 'Create Poll' page. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1004147 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Tue Nov 19 00:36:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Nov 2002 08:36:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 62187 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 08:36:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 08:36:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.24) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 08:36:51 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([62.163.17.208]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20021119083650.KIPW1253.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:36:50 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01c28fa7$044471a0$d011a33e@a...> To: References: <1037665982.315.43945.w9@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:38:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I don't think this is a good idea, because 1) What if the Arbiter is involved in the conflict? He can favour himself, then. 2) What would happen to the "joint possession" clause in the "On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule" rule? Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: Animation Class Lesson 1. http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/wandrer/animationclass/animclass.avi Right-click and Save target As... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:33 AM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > On The Untying Of Ties: > In the case of a tie between players > for possession of a country, the player > who has successfully proposed the most > rules in the preceding three months > shall be appointed Arbiter, and must > decide which of the tied players > receives the aforementioned country, or > whether they are to share possession > equally. In the event that there is a > tie for the position of Arbiter, the > position shall be taken by the proposer > of the rule most recently passed. > > o For > o Against > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1004146 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From racheledugdale@y... Tue Nov 19 03:44:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Nov 2002 11:44:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 60590 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 11:44:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2002 11:44:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.212) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 11:44:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20021119114435.60410.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:44:35 GMT Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:44:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001e01c28fa7$044471a0$d011a33e@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale Hi Stefan, thanks for your comments :) > 1) What if the Arbiter is involved in the conflict? > He can favour himself, > then. This was part of the idea. He can't favour himself if he wasn't one of the original tied players, and if he is, well, good for him :) But if you'd rather, I can amend it to say that the Arbiter must be a player other than those who are tied. But this seems like a big risk, as it may occur in future that *all* players are tied. > 2) What would happen to the "joint possession" > clause in the "On The > Territorial Outcome Of The > Twenty-Fifth Rule" rule? If something is specified as being joint, it isn't a tie. If three people tie for joint possession, it would be up to the Arbiter to choose whether to give it to any two of them jointly, or to all three. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 24 09:32:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 67355 invoked by uid 7800); 24 Nov 2002 17:32:44 -0000 Date: 24 Nov 2002 17:32:44 -0000 Message-ID: <1038159164.33463509.67518.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. [Last updated 17th November 2002] From wandrer@w... Sun Nov 24 12:42:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 24 Nov 2002 20:42:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18131 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 20:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2002 20:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 20:42:58 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gAOKgvcA25064605 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:42:57 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:42:57 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910C0C@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:42:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Someone voted Against this. Can this person please explain the sentiments/reasoning behind this decision? Or does he/she prefer to stay anonymous? Personally I do have my doubts. When discussing rules, advertising and opposing them, it's good to know where people stand. Secrecy will diminish that overview. On the other hand, it's more democratic that way. Being in favour of democracy, I decided to vote 'yes' anyway. Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: Animation Class: Lesson 1 http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 01:37 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > On Secret Ballots: > Polls must be conducted as secret > ballots, by selecting the 'Do not > display voter identity' option on > the 'Create Poll' page. > > o For > o Against > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1004147 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Share the magic of Harry Potter with Yahoo! Messenger > http://us.click.yahoo.com/4Q_cgB/JmBFAA/46VHAA/wkRolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Nov 24 12:53:17 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 24 Nov 2002 20:53:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 28971 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 20:53:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2002 20:53:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41208.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 20:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20021124205317.70938.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.121] by web41208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:53:17 GMT Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:53:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910C0C@s...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston I voted in favour - I like democracy, and if we need to know who voted for what, we can always ask. Like you've just done, in fact! Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Nov 27 21:22:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 77366 invoked by uid 7800); 28 Nov 2002 05:22:14 -0000 Date: 28 Nov 2002 05:22:14 -0000 Message-ID: <1038460934.40.77365.m7@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 5 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From punkbass_2000@y... Thu Nov 28 04:21:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Nov 2002 12:21:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 80254 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 12:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2002 12:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40102.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 12:21:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20021128122152.67291.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 04:21:52 PST Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 04:21:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1038460934.40.77365.m7@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I suppose people are going to have to start giving out our ages then... I'm 19, myself. --- Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here > are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: On The Territorial Outcome Of The > Twenty-Fifth Rule: Upon Rule 25 being > passed and entered in the official list > of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name > it may be entered, the eldest player in > the game shall be awarded possession of > Monaco; the player whose age most > nearly approaches the mean age of all > the players at the time shall be > awarded possession of Brazil; the > player whose age is closest to the date > of the day on which the poll by which > Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the > number of the day in the month) shall > be awarded possession of Japan; and the > two players whose ages are closest > together shall be awarded joint > possession of the United States of > America. When there are several players > who meet the same demand, they will be > ordered lexicographically by the last > letter of their legal first name, and > the last one will be picked. Where this > does not resolve the issue, the > procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be > followed. > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - For, 5 votes, 100.00% > - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rachel@s... Thu Nov 28 04:26:17 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rachel@d... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Nov 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 93327 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO omta01.mta.everyone.net) (216.200.145.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB43C828 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 04:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id A6CAB3CBE; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 04:25:38 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 04:25:38 -0800 (PST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Message-Id: <20021128122538.A6CAB3CBE@s...> X-eGroups-From: Rachel Dugdale From: Rachel Dugdale Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Originating-IP: [163.1.103.123] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124617062 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale --- Jeff Kolnick wrote: >I suppose people are going to have to start giving out >our ages then... I'm 19, myself. Me too - maybe birthdays would be more useful! Mine's 6th January '83. Rachel _____________________________________________________________ Get a FREE email address with NO banner/popup ads - http://email.dygo.com From wandrer@w... Thu Nov 28 07:15:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Nov 2002 15:15:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 89136 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 15:15:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2002 15:15:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep16-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.26) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 15:15:24 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([62.163.17.208]) by amsfep16-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20021128151523.FDXV19041.amsfep16-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:15:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c296f1$363ac0a0$d011a33e@a...> To: References: <20021128122538.A6CAB3CBE@s...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:17:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan 28 november '81. That makes me 21 today! Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: Animation Class Lesson 1. http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/wandrer/animationclass/animclass.avi Right-click and Save target As... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Dugdale" To: Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > --- Jeff Kolnick wrote: > >I suppose people are going to have to start giving out > >our ages then... I'm 19, myself. > > Me too - maybe birthdays would be more useful! Mine's 6th January '83. > > Rachel > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE email address with NO banner/popup ads - http://email.dygo.com > > http://nomic.strategikon.org > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From punkbass_2000@y... Thu Nov 28 07:55:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Nov 2002 15:55:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 78614 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 15:55:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2002 15:55:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40108.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.42) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 15:55:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20021128155528.73944.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:55:28 PST Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:55:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000601c296f1$363ac0a0$d011a33e@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 Happy Birthday. Oct. 20, 1983. --- Stefan wrote: > 28 november '81. That makes me 21 today! > > Stefan. > --- > New film by YellowHead Studios: > Animation Class Lesson 1. > http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/wandrer/animationclass/animclass.avi > Right-click and Save target As... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Dugdale" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for > Pure_Nomic > > > > --- Jeff Kolnick wrote: > > >I suppose people are going to have to start > giving out > > >our ages then... I'm 19, myself. > > > > Me too - maybe birthdays would be more useful! > Mine's 6th January '83. > > > > Rachel > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Get a FREE email address with NO banner/popup ads > - http://email.dygo.com > > > > http://nomic.strategikon.org > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rachel@s... Thu Nov 28 08:53:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: rachel@d... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Nov 2002 16:53:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 29246 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 16:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Nov 2002 16:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO omta01.mta.everyone.net) (216.200.145.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 16:53:59 -0000 Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (dsnat [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7727915C2F6 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 5E0834618; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:53:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:53:21 -0800 (PST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Message-Id: <20021128165321.5E0834618@s...> X-eGroups-From: Rachel Dugdale From: Rachel Dugdale Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Originating-IP: [163.1.103.123] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124617062 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale >28 november '81. That makes me 21 today! Happy Birthday! :) Rachel _____________________________________________________________ Get a FREE email address with NO banner/popup ads - http://email.dygo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Nov 28 16:42:38 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 29 Nov 2002 00:42:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 51615 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 00:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2002 00:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41208.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 00:42:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20021129004237.40773.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.121] by web41208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:42:37 GMT Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:42:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Ages (Was: Poll results) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000601c296f1$363ac0a0$d011a33e@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Happy birthday Stefan. I'm not going to tell anyone my age until the 25th rule gets passed, just to add an element of uncertainty and excitement. A very small element. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Dec 03 14:49:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Dec 2002 22:49:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 51768 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2002 22:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2002 22:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41212.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.45) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2002 22:49:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20021203224926.56662.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.121] by web41212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 22:49:26 GMT Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:49:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Polls closed To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello all, I should point out, since the website has failed to e-mail us the results, that the proposal 'On The Untying Of Ties' has passed and is now entered in the list of rules and the proposals archive, and that the proposal 'On Secret Ballots' has fallen by one vote and is entered in the proposals archive. I'm sure whoever voted against the latter proposal is now feeling glad the vote was a secret ballot so the rest of us can't persecute him / her for opposing a perfectly reasonable proposal! :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 04 14:09:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 35479 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.135] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Date: 4 Dec 2002 22:09:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1039039774.246.27880.w16@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend 'Rule 13: On The Renaming Of Rules' to read: Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010607 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 04 14:22:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19778 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2002 22:22:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2002 22:22:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 22:22:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.185] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2002 22:22:03 -0000 Date: 4 Dec 2002 22:22:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1039040523.59.44087.w61@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Secret Ballots: Polls must be conducted as secret ballots, by selecting the 'Do not display voter identity' option on the 'Create Poll' page. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010611 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From racheledugdale@y... Wed Dec 04 14:25:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 4 Dec 2002 22:25:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 78477 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2002 22:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2002 22:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10708.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.216) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 22:25:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20021204222532.49929.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 22:25:32 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:25:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1039040523.59.44087.w61@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > On Secret Ballots: > Polls must be conducted as secret > ballots, by selecting the 'Do not > display voter identity' option on > the 'Create Poll' page. I just thought I would do this out of curiosity, and see whether the person who voted against is prepared to do so when the ballot isn't secret (which is what they're voting against outlawing). :) Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Dec 04 14:39:32 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 4 Dec 2002 22:39:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 31032 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2002 22:39:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2002 22:39:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40108.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.42) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 22:39:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20021204223930.82017.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:39:30 PST Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:39:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021204222532.49929.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I didn't realize the first one had been secret. Anyway, I'm against primarily because I like knowing who voted for what. It prevents situations like this. --- Rachel Dugdale wrote: > > On Secret Ballots: > > Polls must be conducted as secret > > ballots, by selecting the 'Do not > > display voter identity' option on > > the 'Create Poll' page. > > I just thought I would do this out of curiosity, and > see whether the person who voted against is prepared > to do so when the ballot isn't secret (which is what > they're voting against outlawing). :) > > Rachel > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Wed Dec 04 14:53:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 4 Dec 2002 22:53:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 13972 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2002 22:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2002 22:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.212) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2002 22:53:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20021204225348.4756.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 22:53:48 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:53:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021204223930.82017.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale --- Jeff Kolnick wrote: > I didn't realize the first one had been secret. > Anyway, I'm against primarily because I like knowing > who voted for what. It prevents situations like > this. Yes, knowing who voted for what would prevent situations like the one we just had. I understand that. But having a secret ballot prevents situations like the one we could have now, if I wasn't such a nice person, which could easily involve intimidation, threats, etc. to try and encourage you to vote the 'right' way. I won't do that, because (as you can tell by the fact that I propsed the rule I did) I'm not in favour of that possibility. But it *is* a possibility, which is what I'm trying to prevent arising. It isn't very democratic if everyone knows what everyone else is voting, and can attempt to directly influence them personally. I don't for one minute think that would happen with the five or six active people we have here, but it's a question of principle (and the fact that we *could* have hundreds of players before the game ends, however unlikely that may seem). So that's my view on the matter. That, and a more general desire to see standardised practise in the things that Yahoo gives us options on, wherever that might be useful. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Dec 04 18:58:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 1233 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40112.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.46) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20021205025808.61017.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:58:08 PST Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:58:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021204225348.4756.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I see your point, but, quite frankly, if I ever felt threatened by anyone in this game, I would quit before I would change my vote. I can't imagine anyone doing something like that anyway, not to mention that it wouldn't be too easy for any of us to hurt each other. Also, if someone does vote against, people can easily ask them about it and argue why they think they should vote that way, like you have done now. I believe this is what the game is about. In general, I think arguments and logic will beat threats in this game any day, and I have no problem with them, so why worry about anything less important? --- Rachel Dugdale wrote: > --- Jeff Kolnick wrote: > > I didn't realize the first one had been secret. > > Anyway, I'm against primarily because I like > knowing > > who voted for what. It prevents situations like > > this. > > Yes, knowing who voted for what would prevent > situations like the one we just had. I understand > that. But having a secret ballot prevents > situations > like the one we could have now, if I wasn't such a > nice person, which could easily involve > intimidation, > threats, etc. to try and encourage you to vote the > 'right' way. I won't do that, because (as you can > tell by the fact that I propsed the rule I did) I'm > not in favour of that possibility. But it *is* a > possibility, which is what I'm trying to prevent > arising. It isn't very democratic if everyone knows > what everyone else is voting, and can attempt to > directly influence them personally. I don't for one > minute think that would happen with the five or six > active people we have here, but it's a question of > principle (and the fact that we *could* have > hundreds > of players before the game ends, however unlikely > that > may seem). So that's my view on the matter. That, > and a more general desire to see standardised > practise > in the things that Yahoo gives us options on, > wherever > that might be useful. > > Rachel > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Dec 05 10:18:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 18:18:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 30671 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41203.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.36) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20021205181850.32112.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.121] by web41203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:18:50 GMT Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:18:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021205025808.61017.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston > so why worry > about anything less important? So that we can pass lots of rules quickly and see what happens when we get to number 25 :) (Not a real argument) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 05 10:25:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79676 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 18:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 18:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 18:25:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.252] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2002 18:25:44 -0000 Date: 5 Dec 2002 18:25:40 -0000 Message-ID: <1039112740.470.41786.w73@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Withdrawal Of Proposals: Once officially proposed (that is, once made into a poll on the yahoogroups website), a proposal may not be withdrawn except on a point of order. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010898 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 05 10:35:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22620 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 18:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 18:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 18:35:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.134] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2002 18:35:07 -0000 Date: 5 Dec 2002 18:35:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1039113307.218.91700.w15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Choices Offered: The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with the option to vote 'Against'. Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010903 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 05 11:15:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98300 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 19:15:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 19:15:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 19:15:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2002 19:15:01 -0000 Date: 5 Dec 2002 19:14:59 -0000 Message-ID: <1039115699.275.85399.w17@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend 'Rule 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature' to read: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010925 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 05 11:17:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 87191 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 19:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 19:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 19:17:40 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2002 19:17:40 -0000 Date: 5 Dec 2002 19:17:38 -0000 Message-ID: <1039115858.327.38982.w27@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend 'Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players' to read: A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010927 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 05 11:20:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 87194 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 19:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 19:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 19:20:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2002 19:20:10 -0000 Date: 5 Dec 2002 19:20:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1039116009.251.85494.w36@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend 'Rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession' to read: A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1010928 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 05 11:34:39 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 19:34:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 52170 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 19:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 19:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.212) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 19:34:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20021205193437.46356.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:34:37 GMT Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:34:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: All these new polls of mine To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1039116009.251.85494.w36@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale Hi everyone, Just thought I'd explain why I've suddenly proposed a handful of amendments to rules. Basically I'm trying to introduce a third category of 'thing which can be proposed' which isn't a rule or an amendment to a rule. There are already a couple of things which the rules specify can be proposed which don't fall in to either of these categories, and I think it would be useful to have an umbrella term so that we can legislate for them. The amendments I've proposed do the following: Rule 4: introduce this third category as valid, and call it a 'procedural motion' Rule 9: make expelling a player a procedural motion (rather than a rule) Rule 15: makes it possible to take possession of a country by means of a procedural motion (rather than a 'proposal') Hope this is clear and relatively uncontroversial. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Thu Dec 05 11:36:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 19:36:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 18096 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 19:36:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 19:36:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10703.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.211) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 19:36:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20021205193649.708.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.122] by web10703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:36:49 GMT Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:36:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021205025808.61017.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale --- Jeff Kolnick wrote: > I see your point, but, quite frankly, if I ever felt > threatened by anyone in this game, I would quit > before > I would change my vote. I can't imagine anyone doing > something like that anyway, not to mention that it > wouldn't be too easy for any of us to hurt each > other. > Also, if someone does vote against, people can > easily > ask them about it and argue why they think they > should > vote that way, like you have done now. I believe > this > is what the game is about. In general, I think > arguments and logic will beat threats in this game > any > day, and I have no problem with them, so why worry > about anything less important? Thanks for explaining :) I've withdrawn the motion now anyway (and we'll soon see legislation outlawing *that*), but I just wanted to have the discussion. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 06 05:36:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34725 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 13:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2002 13:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 13:36:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.186] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2002 13:36:21 -0000 Date: 6 Dec 2002 13:36:20 -0000 Message-ID: <1039181780.220.39849.w62@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Official List Of Rules: The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1011218 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 06 09:36:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 85566 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 17:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2002 17:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 17:36:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.176] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2002 17:36:00 -0000 Date: 6 Dec 2002 17:35:59 -0000 Message-ID: <1039196159.196.52159.w53@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Procedural Motion: The player known as Chris Goodwin shall be granted possession of the nation known as Australia. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1011340 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Sat Dec 07 06:49:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Dec 2002 14:49:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 95869 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2002 14:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2002 14:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2002 14:49:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2002 14:49:40 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 14:49:38 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New poll (Chris') Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1039196159.196.52159.w53@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1186 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston " X-Originating-IP: 163.1.103.122 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston > Procedural Motion: The player known as Chris Goodwin shall be > granted possession of the nation known as Australia. Just to point out a couple of things that people may not have noticed (or may have done, I don't know). First, the rule establishing the existence and validity of procedural motions hasn't passed yet, so it's still technically against the rules (specifically Rule 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature) to try to propose procedural motions. Second, I noticed that the wording of Rule 15: Definition of Countries & Possession is a bit ambiguous. It says that you can gain possession of a country by *proposing* a rule (or, if the amended version passes, a procedural motion) to that effect. But then it goes on to say that you only get possession if the proposal passes. After some reflection, I don't think this is a problem, as the last sentence makes it fairly clear that it only works if the thing is passed - does anyone disagree? If so, we might need to amend it to be a bit clearer. Jamie PS Anyone (particularly the person voting against) want to tell me what they don't like about my two current proposals so I can see if I can improve them? From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 08 08:22:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 52513 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 16:22:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 16:22:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 16:22:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.139] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2002 16:22:05 -0000 Date: 8 Dec 2002 16:22:04 -0000 Message-ID: <1039364524.502.99557.w2@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Breaking Of Rules: An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1011969 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Dec 08 08:25:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 16:25:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 91892 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 16:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 16:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41208.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 16:25:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20021208162540.80859.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:25:40 GMT Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:25:40 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: New poll for Pure_Nomic (Mine) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1039364524.502.99557.w2@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi again, Please feel free to tell me if you think this proposal has any problems. I thought I'd start the poll going before asking, so it gets passed quicker if at all, but if there are problems with it I'll be happy to change it. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From archer7@a... Sun Dec 08 09:25:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer7@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 17:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5641 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 17:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 17:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc01.attbi.com) (204.127.202.61) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 17:25:02 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (12-237-223-239.client.attbi.com[12.237.223.239]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <2002120816413500100ahhr9e>; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:41:35 +0000 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:42:00 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: archer@chrislis To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 120 In-Reply-To: <1039355547.147.95375.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Chris Goodwin Reply-To: Chris Goodwin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=128637523 X-Yahoo-Profile: archer1005 On 8 Dec 2002 Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com wrote: > First, the rule establishing the existence and validity of procedural > motions hasn't passed yet, so it's still technically against the > rules (specifically Rule 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature) to try to > propose procedural motions. Well... it doesn't have to pass as a procedural motion; it's just a proposal to the effect that I am in possession of the country. I'll be glad to amend it to whatever makes it work. > Second, I noticed that the wording of Rule 15: Definition of > Countries & Possession is a bit ambiguous. It says that you can gain > possession of a country by *proposing* a rule (or, if the amended > version passes, a procedural motion) to that effect. But then it goes > on to say that you only get possession if the proposal passes. After > some reflection, I don't think this is a problem, as the last > sentence makes it fairly clear that it only works if the thing is > passed - does anyone disagree? If so, we might need to amend it to be > a bit clearer. Right. The intent is that you can propose something like "I now possess country X" and if it passes, you possess that country. According to the rules, you don't have to propose an actual rule to possess the country; you just have to make a proposal (rule 15 doesn't state what form the proposal must be in). -- Chris Goodwin archer7@a... From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 08 09:37:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 99849 invoked by uid 7800); 8 Dec 2002 17:37:11 -0000 Date: 8 Dec 2002 17:37:11 -0000 Message-ID: <1039369031.33730607.95353.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules and rule amendments, and all other matters are to be discussed solely on the list. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a rule stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of a rule to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. [Last updated 30th November 2002] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Dec 08 11:34:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Dec 2002 19:34:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 61337 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 19:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2002 19:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41211.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.44) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 19:34:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20021208193432.93360.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:34:32 GMT Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:34:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 120 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Chris wrote: > Right. The intent is that you can propose something > like "I now possess > country X" and if it passes, you possess that > country. According to the > rules, you don't have to propose an actual rule to > possess the > country; you just have to make a proposal (rule 15 > doesn't state what form > the proposal must be in). Yes, the problem is, though, that the rule (I forget the number) On Use Of The Polling Feature explicitly forbids the creation of polls for any purpose other than proposing rules and proposing to amend rules. So yes, if one made a proposal of a different kind to the effect that one possessed a country, and it passed, one would possess that country, as specified in Rule 15. But one would also have broken the rule On Use Of The Polling Feature, so it would be questionable whether the proposal would be valid. In my view it would be valid, because the rule says the player musn't do it, not that if he / she does then the proposal doesn't count. But the main point is that it's against the rules. Well, the rule. See what I mean? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From archer7@a... Mon Dec 09 09:23:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer7@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Dec 2002 17:23:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 89383 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2002 17:23:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2002 17:23:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc02.attbi.com) (204.127.202.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2002 17:23:50 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (12-237-223-239.client.attbi.com[12.237.223.239]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2002120917134300200e1214e>; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:13:44 +0000 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:14:07 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: archer@chrislis To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 121 In-Reply-To: <1039440850.220.23169.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Chris Goodwin Reply-To: Chris Goodwin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=128637523 X-Yahoo-Profile: archer1005 Chris wrote: > Right. The intent is that you can propose something > like "I now possess > country X" and if it passes, you possess that > country. According to the > rules, you don't have to propose an actual rule to > possess the > country; you just have to make a proposal (rule 15 > doesn't state what form > the proposal must be in). Jamie wrote: > Yes, the problem is, though, that the rule (I forget > the number) On Use Of The Polling Feature explicitly > forbids the creation of polls for any purpose other > than proposing rules and proposing to amend rules. So > yes, if one made a proposal of a different kind to the > effect that one possessed a country, and it passed, > one would possess that country, as specified in Rule > 15. But one would also have broken the rule On Use Of > The Polling Feature, so it would be questionable > whether the proposal would be valid. In my view it > would be valid, because the rule says the player > musn't do it, not that if he / she does then the > proposal doesn't count. But the main point is that > it's against the rules. Well, the rule. I gotcha. I illegally used the polling feature to make my proposal. If Rachel's proposal on procedural motions passes (and it looks like it will), then my proposal will be legal. If this is satisfactory for everyone we can continue as is, otherwise I'll close the poll and repropose when the procedural motions rule passes. -- Chris Goodwin archer7@a... From archer7@a... Mon Dec 09 09:24:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer7@a... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Dec 2002 17:24:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 94145 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2002 17:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2002 17:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc03.attbi.com) (204.127.202.63) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2002 17:24:40 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (12-237-223-239.client.attbi.com[12.237.223.239]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2002120917243900300ef8cfe>; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:24:40 +0000 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:25:03 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: archer@chrislis To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: A few proposals.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Chris Goodwin Reply-To: Chris Goodwin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=128637523 X-Yahoo-Profile: archer1005 Jamie, I'm the one who voted against several of your proposals, and I'll explain why here. On the Choices Offered: I voted against this because of the absolute requirement that the poll offer an "Against" option and that this be the only way to vote against a proposal. If it were amended to read something like "It is recommended that all polls include an 'Against' option, and that any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal'." It's mainly esthetic; I think that in polls that include yea or nay, yes or no, absolutely and no way, etc., it's pretty obvious which the player should choose to vote against and which to vote for. In other words, I don't see any confusion that requires this proposal. On the Withdrawal of Proposals: I don't think this one is necessary, because voting against a proposal is the same as withdrawing it, and the person who created the poll can always vote against it. Also, people (myself included) frequently use the poll service to propose rules that haven't had any discussion about them (witness my recent proposal); unless a point of order is formally raised, there really isn't any way to change or alter the poll so that it is palatable to everyone. On the Breaking of Rules: This requires a lot of bookkeeping, and basically requires someone to make a list of all of the countries in the world -- and the game can't continue until this is done. Plus, I don't think that there's a need to keep players from "breaking the rules" because I don't think it's done deliberately; if we had people going around doing so then there'd be a problem in need of a fix. -- Chris Goodwin archer7@a... From racheledugdale@y... Mon Dec 09 09:39:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Dec 2002 17:39:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 69614 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2002 17:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2002 17:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10701.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.209) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2002 17:39:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20021209173948.32244.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.124] by web10701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:39:48 GMT Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:39:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 121 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > I gotcha. I illegally used the polling feature to > make my proposal. If > Rachel's proposal on procedural motions passes (and > it looks like it > will), then my proposal will be legal. If this is > satisfactory for > everyone we can continue as is, otherwise I'll close > the poll and > repropose when the procedural motions rule passes. It's fine by me :) Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Mon Dec 09 22:59:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 06:59:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 58653 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 06:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 06:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40112.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.46) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 06:59:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20021210065930.75770.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 22:59:30 PST Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:59:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Interesting Thought To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 You know, if this thing does end up being a real game that somebody wins, it would be a very interesting game to manufacture, I think. Think of the creativity. If we explained how we created the game, I think that it would attract people to a certain extent, it would be very innovative. Well, there's my two cents on nothing. Whatever. ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Dec 10 03:26:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 11:26:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 49120 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 11:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 11:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41213.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.46) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 11:26:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20021210112648.88556.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.174.7.79] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:26:48 GMT Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:26:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] A few proposals.... To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Chris wrote: > On the Choices Offered: > ...If it were > amended to read something > like "It is recommended that all polls include an > 'Against' option, and > that any vote cast for this option shall be > considered a vote 'against > said proposal'." It's mainly esthetic; I think that > in polls that include > yea or nay, yes or no, absolutely and no way, etc., > it's pretty obvious > which the player should choose to vote against and > which to vote for. As far as 'it is recommended' goes, I tend to take the view that there's little point in having a rule to recommend something - I could just recommend it myself. However, I do take your point that this rule would restrict freedom to be creative about the choices - that's a good point. How about if I change it so say 'an option which is unequivocally negative' rather than 'an "Against" option'? > On the Breaking of Rules: This requires a lot of > bookkeeping, and > basically requires someone to make a list of all of > the countries in the > world -- and the game can't continue until this is > done. I have to say I think someone will have to do this at some stage anyway, otherwise how are we to tell when someone has won? I'm quite happy to do the work - I have access to a copyright library, so I shouldn't have trouble getting hold of a world atlas from around Janurary 2001. It shouldn't take more than an afternoon's work to make a list of all the countries in it. I also don't think there's anything in the proposal that makes it impossible for the game to continue until the list's made. It just means we can't put this specific rule into operation until it's done. > Plus, I don't > think that there's a need to keep players from > "breaking the rules" I completely agree with this. Essentially what I'm trying to do with this proposal is to create a way in which we can actually start acquiring countries in a way which can't be stopped by other people simply voting against it. This was a way I thought we could do it. One more thing - > On The Choices Offered: > ... In > other words, I don't see any confusion that requires > this proposal. > On the Withdrawal of Proposals: I don't think this > one is necessary, I could explain why I think these two rules would be beneficial, but I'm feeling a bit mischievous, so I'm actually just going to make two new proposals which will demonstrate why I think they'd be useful. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 10 03:33:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34796 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 11:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 11:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 11:33:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.161] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 11:33:41 -0000 Date: 10 Dec 2002 11:33:38 -0000 Message-ID: <1039520018.997.55965.w4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Fireflies: Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. "Coup d'etat: Canada" o In Favour o In Favour To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1012737 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 10 03:36:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11754 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 11:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 11:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 11:36:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.250] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 11:36:14 -0000 Date: 10 Dec 2002 11:36:11 -0000 Message-ID: <1039520171.312.98032.w71@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Elephants: Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. "Coup d'etat: Mexico" o In Favour o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1012738 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 10 03:37:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7745 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 11:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 11:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 11:37:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 11:37:24 -0000 Date: 10 Dec 2002 11:37:20 -0000 Message-ID: <1039520240.91.34918.w60@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Elephants: Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. "Coup d'etat: Mexico" CHOICES AND RESULTS - In Favour, 1 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Dec 10 03:42:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 11:42:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 17568 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 11:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 11:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 11:42:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2002 11:42:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:42:41 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1039520240.91.34918.w60@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 28 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston " X-Originating-IP: 172.174.7.79 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston See what I mean? ;) Jamie From racheledugdale@y... Tue Dec 10 09:35:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 17:35:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 84191 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 17:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 17:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10705.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.213) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 17:35:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20021210173508.6799.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.124] by web10705.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:35:08 GMT Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:35:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1039520240.91.34918.w60@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here > are the > final results: > > POLL QUESTION: On Elephants: > Players shall give assistance to any > elephant if said elephant requests > assistance. > "Coup d'etat: Mexico" > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - In Favour, 1 votes, 100.00% > - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% This is not a withdrawal - this is an illegal conclusion of a poll before it has had ten days open. I hereby declare the result invalid. And to whoever said no-one would deliberately break the rules... you were mistaken :) Rachel PS Jamie - yes, you will get Canada unless I do something not-strictly-against-but-not-mentioned-in the rules and withdraw your proposal for you... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Dec 10 16:23:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 00:23:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 13983 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 00:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 00:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41204.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 00:23:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20021211002333.45353.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.156.57.83] by web41204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:23:33 GMT Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:23:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021210173508.6799.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Rachel wrote: > This is not a withdrawal - this is an illegal > conclusion of a poll before it has had ten days > open. > I hereby declare the result invalid. It's not illegal. Show me the rule I've broken. :P You're right, it's not really a withdrawal. I agree on reflexion that my 'withdrawal of proposals' proposal isn't the best way to deal with this loophole, it would be better achieved by amending the existing time-limit rule. It would, however, have much the same effect. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 10 19:29:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15329 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 03:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 03:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 03:29:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Dec 2002 03:29:43 -0000 Date: 11 Dec 2002 03:29:42 -0000 Message-ID: <1039577382.342.79168.w57@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Rules and Procedure: Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1013065 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From archer7@a... Tue Dec 10 20:17:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer7@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Dec 2002 04:17:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 73948 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2002 04:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2002 04:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc02.attbi.com) (204.127.202.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2002 04:17:25 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (12-237-223-239.client.attbi.com[12.237.223.239]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with SMTP id <2002121103340900200fgff4e>; Wed, 11 Dec 2002 03:34:09 +0000 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:34:28 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: archer@chrislis To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 122 In-Reply-To: <1039529527.270.87503.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Chris Goodwin Reply-To: Chris Goodwin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=128637523 X-Yahoo-Profile: archer1005 On 10 Dec 2002 Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com wrote: > I gotcha. I illegally used the polling feature to make my proposal. If > Rachel's proposal on procedural motions passes (and it looks like it > will), then my proposal will be legal. If this is satisfactory for > everyone we can continue as is, otherwise I'll close the poll and > repropose when the procedural motions rule passes. I just went back and looked at The Rules Thus Far. There is a rule that states that where two rules conflict, the later rule takes precedence. The rule regarding "making a proposal of such" could be said to take precedence over the rule requiring the polling feature to be used only to propose rules and rule amendments; I'm going to push for an implied permission to specifically propose the possession of countries regardless of what such a proposal is called. Jamie wrote.... > On Fireflies: > Players shall give assistance to any > firefly if said firefly requests > assistance. > "Coup d'etat: Canada" > > o In Favour > o In Favour Smartypants. :-) Okay, I can see the specific need to have a negative result (and, by extension, a positive one; no polls needed saying "Against / Against"). > You're right, it's not really a withdrawal. I agree on > reflexion that my 'withdrawal of proposals' proposal > isn't the best way to deal with this loophole, it > would be better achieved by amending the existing > time-limit rule. It would, however, have much the same > effect. The polling feature does allow you to delete a poll, which could be considered withdrawing it; I would say that in this case the poll wasn't illegally closed, since nothing says the author of a poll can't close it before the time limit, but I would also say that because it didn't run the full ten days that it can't be considered a legal proposal and is therefore invalid. Rachel wrote.... > This is not a withdrawal - this is an illegal > conclusion of a poll before it has had ten days open. > I hereby declare the result invalid. > > And to whoever said no-one would deliberately break > the rules... you were mistaken :) Well.... Jamie didn't technically _break_ the rules. But I still don't think we need a stick to keep people from doing so; perhaps just a rule that any proposal not made in accordance with the rules is considered invalid and cannot be passed. OTOH, if all players agree to pass a proposal in contravention of other rules that may prohibit it, that is technically the agreement of all players and would be a legal change to the rules. -- Chris Goodwin archer7@a... From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Dec 11 19:19:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 03:19:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 4355 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 02:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 02:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41203.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.36) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 02:36:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20021212023614.29950.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.17.225] by web41203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 02:36:14 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 02:36:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 122 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Chris wrote: > I just went back and looked at The Rules Thus Far. > There is a rule that > states that where two rules conflict, the later rule > takes precedence. > The rule regarding "making a proposal of such" could > be said to take > precedence over the rule requiring the polling > feature to be used only to > propose rules and rule amendments; I'm going to push > for an implied > permission to specifically propose the possession of > countries regardless > of what such a proposal is called. Hmm. I'm not dead convinced, because the later rule doesn't give any indication that the proposal has to be made using the polling feature. It's all rather vague. But it doesn't really matter much, because a) your motion isn't going to pass anyway, and b) there's nothing we need to do to people who break the rules, so we don't really need to establish whether you broke them or not. > Smartypants. :-) Okay, I can see the specific need > to have a negative > result (and, by extension, a positive one; no polls > needed saying > "Against / Against"). Actually we don't need to specify that there has to be an 'in favour' type option because you can vote in favour by just not voting. > The polling feature does allow you to delete a poll, > which could be > considered withdrawing it; I would say that in this > case the poll wasn't > illegally closed, since nothing says the author of a > poll can't close it > before the time limit, but I would also say that > because it didn't run the > full ten days that it can't be considered a legal > proposal and is > therefore invalid. That would be fair enough, except that the rules don't say that polls have to run for ten days, they say that ten days is the time *limit*. In other words it can run any time up to ten days. > OTOH, if all players > agree to pass a > proposal in contravention of other rules that may > prohibit it, that is > technically the agreement of all players and would > be a legal change to > the rules. That's a good point. I hadn;t thought of that. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Dec 11 20:29:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 04:29:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 60245 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41206.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 02:58:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20021212025805.98221.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.17.225] by web41206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 02:58:05 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 02:58:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: A couple of things To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi, First thing, I've amended my proposal to read: "On The Choices Offered: The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered." Hope you'll all vote for this now. It will now close on the 22nd. Second thing, I'm going to have one last effort to persuade Chris to vote for my proposal about rule-breaking. I completely agree that there's really no need for mechanisms to deal with people breaking the rules. This proposal isn't designed as a punishment, or a deterrent, or anything. It's purely intended as a way of getting people having countries. So far it seems like the only way anyone can get possession of countries is to find loopholes in the rules and ruthlessly exploit them :) The other mechanisms we have all have the drawback that people will just vote any attempt to gain possession of a country. Even if it's a really good proposal, if it's got a coup d'etat tagged on the end people will vote against it and then just re-propose it without the coup clause. So come on, here's a way in which we might conceivably get some chance of someone winning. We're going to need a list of countries at some stage anyway, or we'll never be able to tell who's won. I'll do the work. Let's try it. Go on, pleeeeeease. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Thu Dec 12 05:44:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 13:44:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 29106 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 13:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 13:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40106.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 13:44:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20021212134409.43271.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 05:44:09 PST Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 05:44:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] A couple of things To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021212025805.98221.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 Perhaps we need to come up with a better, faster and more consistent way to get countries. Perhaps we could have some sort of online contest, such as a game of some sort. I would personally prefer something like chess in order for there to be some strategy and skill to earning countries, but any game would do. --- Jamie Johnston wrote: > Hi, > > First thing, I've amended my proposal to read: > > "On The Choices Offered: The proposer of a proposal > shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, > provide > those voting on it with an explicitly negative > option > (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this > option shall be considered a vote 'against said > proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By > Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so > considered." > > Hope you'll all vote for this now. It will now close > on the 22nd. > > Second thing, I'm going to have one last effort to > persuade Chris to vote for my proposal about > rule-breaking. I completely agree that there's > really > no need for mechanisms to deal with people breaking > the rules. This proposal isn't designed as a > punishment, or a deterrent, or anything. It's purely > intended as a way of getting people having > countries. > > So far it seems like the only way anyone can get > possession of countries is to find loopholes in the > rules and ruthlessly exploit them :) The other > mechanisms we have all have the drawback that people > will just vote any attempt to gain possession of a > country. Even if it's a really good proposal, if > it's > got a coup d'etat tagged on the end people will vote > against it and then just re-propose it without the > coup clause. > > So come on, here's a way in which we might > conceivably > get some chance of someone winning. We're going to > need a list of countries at some stage anyway, or > we'll never be able to tell who's won. I'll do the > work. Let's try it. Go on, pleeeeeease. :) > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Dec 12 10:15:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 18:15:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 84808 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 18:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 18:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41202.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 18:15:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20021212181531.27422.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.163.96.156] by web41202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:15:31 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:15:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] A couple of things To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021212134409.43271.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Jeff wrote: > Perhaps we need to come up with a better, faster and > more consistent way to get countries. Perhaps we > could > have some sort of online contest, such as a game of > some sort. I would personally prefer something like > chess in order for there to be some strategy and > skill > to earning countries, but any game would do. This is the game. We're playing it now. The thing is that part of the game is to write the rules of the game. We could just turn it into a different game (I once played a game in which after several hours a rule was passed stating that 'This game of Pure Nomic shall be a game of Noughts And Crosses. The winner of Noughts and Crosses shall be the winner of Pure Nomic'), but I think that would be a bit of a shame. If we wanted to play chess, we could just play chess in stead of playing pure nomic. We could, as you suggest, incorporate games of chess into the game as one element (though personally I don't like chess because I'm rubbish at it), but I feel it would be a shame to import any existing game wholesale. But we do have precedent for incorporating ideas from other games - the business about countries and continents is not dissimilar to Risk and other strategy games. So I'd be happy to see some idea like yours turned into a proposal, though if it involves chess I may well vote against it. But I don't see that there's any harm in having lots of different ways to acquire possession of countries, and since we have a proposal (On The Breaking Of Rules) on the table which would provide another way, let's have it. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 14 08:04:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98844 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2002 16:04:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2002 16:04:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2002 16:04:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.250] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2002 16:04:29 -0000 Date: 14 Dec 2002 16:04:28 -0000 Message-ID: <1039881868.163.4098.w71@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal: International Blitz *** The player known as Chris Goodwin (Yahoo profile archer1005) shall be in possession of the nation known as Australia. *** The player with the Yahoo profile blue373_2002 shall be in possession of the nation known as Belize. *** The player known as Jamie Johnston (Yahoo profile jamiekjohnston) shall be in possession of the nation known as Japan. *** The player known as Jeff (Yahoo profile punkbass_2000) shall be in possession of the nation known as Panama. *** The player known as Rachel Dugdale (Yahoo profile racheledugdale) shall be in possession of the nation known as Russia. *** The player known as Russ (Yahoo profile not available) shall be in possession of the nation known as Romania. *** The player with the Yahoo profile wandrerstefan shall be in possession of the nation known as Singapore (note: there were no sovereign nations beginning with W, so he gets an S instead) *** The player with the Yahoo profile jmlyle_yg shall be in possession of the nation known as Jamaica. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1014367 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From archer7@a... Sat Dec 14 08:27:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer7@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 14 Dec 2002 16:27:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 39423 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2002 16:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2002 16:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc51.attbi.com) (204.127.198.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2002 16:27:23 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (12-237-223-239.client.attbi.com[12.237.223.239]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2002121415530605100jbieke>; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:53:06 +0000 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:53:19 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: archer@chrislis To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 123 In-Reply-To: <1039695840.227.20730.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Chris Goodwin Reply-To: Chris Goodwin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=128637523 X-Yahoo-Profile: archer1005 Jamie wrote... > So far it seems like the only way anyone can get > possession of countries is to find loopholes in the > rules and ruthlessly exploit them :) Oh, not necessarily. I'm not above a little quid pro quo here.... -- Chris Goodwin archer7@a... From jamiekjohnston@y... Sat Dec 14 10:12:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 14 Dec 2002 18:12:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 34745 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2002 18:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2002 18:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41212.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2002 18:12:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20021214181227.80049.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:12:27 GMT Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:12:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: International Blitz To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1039881868.163.4098.w71@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello Chris, Just to warn you, I'm going to vote against your rule. This is not, as one might easily suppose, just because you're voting against mine, but for a similarly selfish reason. You see, of the countries you're proposing to dish out, Japan, the one you've proposed to give to me, has a unique feature: it's probably going to be taken away from whoever has it when we pass rule 25. (See 'On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule'.) Now, I don't really want a country that's going to be taken away, which is why I chose to take Canada and Mexico but not the U.S.A. So I shall be happy to vote for your proposal if you amend it to give me some other country, but until then I'll be voting against. Also, a couple of things to clarify. First, I hope we're all agreed that Australia isn't in itself an entire continent - because I've met some people in the past who insist that it is. I'm going to propose a rule soon (when I've done my research with an atlas) to define more clearly which countries are in which continents, but until then I think it would be useful to check that we all agree that. Second, I'm afraid I *still* think that rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession does not override rule 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature. Rule 15 states: "A player may gain possession of a country by making a proposal of such to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com mailing list. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country." The crucial clause is "if the proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect". Since the rules currently in effect prohibit the use of polls to do anything other than create or amend rules, then it's still not valid to make a proposal of any other kind, and therefore no such proposal can pass in accordance with the rules now in effect. This isn't to say that your new proposal isn't valid, just that it will create a rule. Thanks for listening. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 14 10:24:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2968 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2002 18:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2002 18:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2002 18:24:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.168] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2002 18:24:12 -0000 Date: 14 Dec 2002 18:24:12 -0000 Message-ID: <1039890252.313.38476.w46@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend Rule 2: Darth Vader to read: "The poll on each proposal shall close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed." o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1014397 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 14 10:32:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19101 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2002 18:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2002 18:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2002 18:32:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.156] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2002 18:32:38 -0000 Date: 14 Dec 2002 18:32:38 -0000 Message-ID: <1039890758.188.48704.w35@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend 'Rule 16: Pork-Barrel Rule' to read: When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, specifying the day (as an ordinal number), month (as a word) and year. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1014399 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 14 18:49:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 41123 invoked by uid 7800); 15 Dec 2002 02:49:04 -0000 Date: 15 Dec 2002 02:49:04 -0000 Message-ID: <1039920544.21.41122.m10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend 'Rule 13: On The Renaming Of Rules' to read: Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 15 10:55:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 57121 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 18:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 18:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 18:55:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 18:55:34 -0000 Date: 15 Dec 2002 18:55:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1039978534.267.83070.w65@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Breaking Of Rules: An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. o For o Yes o In Favour o I Agree o To vote in favour of this proposal click here To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1014659 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 15 10:56:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10915 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2002 18:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2002 18:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2002 18:56:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.250] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2002 18:56:43 -0000 Date: 15 Dec 2002 18:56:43 -0000 Message-ID: <1039978603.48.85645.w71@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Breaking Of Rules: An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 1 votes, 33.33% - Yes, 0 votes, 0.00% - In Favour, 1 votes, 33.33% - I Agree, 1 votes, 33.33% - To vote in favour of this proposal click here, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 15 18:39:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19252 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Dec 2002 02:39:28 -0000 Date: 16 Dec 2002 02:39:28 -0000 Message-ID: <1040006368.21.19251.m8@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend 'Rule 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature' to read: The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 15 18:39:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 67884 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Dec 2002 02:39:27 -0000 Date: 16 Dec 2002 02:39:27 -0000 Message-ID: <1040006367.20.67883.m9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend 'Rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession' to read: A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 15 18:39:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 67915 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Dec 2002 02:39:27 -0000 Date: 16 Dec 2002 02:39:27 -0000 Message-ID: <1040006367.38.67910.m9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend 'Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players' to read: A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 15 18:39:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69598 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Dec 2002 02:39:43 -0000 Date: 16 Dec 2002 02:39:43 -0000 Message-ID: <1040006383.18.69597.m11@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Withdrawal Of Proposals: Once officially proposed (that is, once made into a poll on the yahoogroups website), a proposal may not be withdrawn except on a point of order. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 75.00% - Against, 1 votes, 25.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Dec 16 18:44:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28212 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Dec 2002 02:44:23 -0000 Date: 17 Dec 2002 02:44:23 -0000 Message-ID: <1040093063.22.28209.m8@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Official List Of Rules: The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% - For, 4 votes, 100.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 18 13:38:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55915 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 21:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 21:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 21:38:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.156] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 21:38:27 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2002 21:38:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1040247506.290.48191.w35@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: J. Martin Lyle is an elephant. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1015946 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 18 13:46:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69143 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 21:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 21:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 21:46:40 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.176] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 21:46:40 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2002 21:46:39 -0000 Message-ID: <1040247999.155.44914.w53@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: If a poll (proposal) is ever in a state where it has been voted on by all players, and there are no votes against the proposal, it is considered passed, the poll will be closed, and the rule entered into the list of rules. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1015950 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 18 14:06:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17165 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 22:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 22:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 22:06:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 22:06:14 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2002 22:06:13 -0000 Message-ID: <1040249173.67.36080.w45@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Firefly Repellent: Fireflies are hereby extinct. There shall never in the future exist any entity or thing known as a firefly. Any entity or thing previously or currently known as a firefly is hereby eradicated from existence. "Coup d'etat: Equatorial Guinea" o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1015958 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 18 14:09:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17195 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Date: 18 Dec 2002 22:09:37 -0000 Message-ID: <1040249377.71.54136.w5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Elephant Party: There will be a maximum of two elephants at any one time. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1015961 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Dec 19 15:44:32 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 19 Dec 2002 23:44:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 87049 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2002 23:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2002 23:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2002 23:44:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2002 23:44:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:44:30 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: JML's legislative programme Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1834 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston " X-Originating-IP: 172.181.199.213 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, I've added these new proposals to the proposals archive. Does anyone find this useful, by the way? Are there any ways it could be improved? Anyway, I just thought I'd explain my voting on these four proposals, just because it's nice to know why people vote how they do. 'Firefly Repellent' - I'm voting against this because it's a bit mean to exterminate anything, and because I like fireflies, and because it would be very hard to actually put this proposal into effect. Oh, and because it's got a coup d'etat on the end. 'All In Favor Rule (aka "Consensus is Confirmation", aka "Blind Patriotism") ' - I'm voting against this because it would make my life harder, since I'm the one who has to put new rules into the list and I'd therefore have to check the proposals constantly to see if any were in the specified state. Oh, and because it's got a coup d'etat on the end. The two Elephant proposals - This is where I get suspicious. I think the above two proposals with the coups d'etat, were intended to distract us: the idea being that we'd vote against those, and then, seeing that these two elephant ones are fairly harmless and don't have coups on, we'd vote in favour of them. But these two are the most dangerous ones of all, because the proposer (shall I call you J, or Martin? Or Mr. Lyle?) would, if they were passed, become one of a maximum of two elephants in the game, and, according to rule 19: On Elephants, all other players would be required to assist him if asked. I suspect that if this happened, he would begin to ask for our assistance to win the game, which would have to give. It's a clever scheme, and I applaud it, but I also vote against it. :) Incidentally, who's voting against the amendment to 'Pork-Barrel Rule'? Why do we have to have American style dates? Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 19 17:11:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 80667 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2002 01:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2002 01:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2002 01:11:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2002 01:11:51 -0000 Date: 20 Dec 2002 01:11:51 -0000 Message-ID: <1040346711.252.21226.w18@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Official List Of Players: Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1016360 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 19 17:19:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95033 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2002 01:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2002 01:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2002 01:19:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.185] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2002 01:19:50 -0000 Date: 20 Dec 2002 01:19:49 -0000 Message-ID: <1040347189.358.53512.w61@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available: Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1016362 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Dec 19 17:38:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 20 Dec 2002 01:38:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 98517 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2002 01:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2002 01:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2002 01:38:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2002 01:38:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:38:19 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Two new proposals by me Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2901 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston " X-Originating-IP: 172.181.199.213 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello again, These two proposals are just to ratify the files I've created in accordance with Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules. As far as the list of players goes, I hope I've got everyone's name right and I hope I've put them in the right order! Stefan, am I right in thinking you should be listed under Z for Zwam rather than V for van Zwam? And does anyone know what Russell P's surname is? The countries file is a bit more complicated. The information is taken from the Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World, 2000 edition. I know the rules specify the countries have to be those in existence on January 1st 2001, but I couldn't find any atlases published that day. If we all vote to ratify the file it will supersede that requirement anyway. I hope everyone is happy with that. For those who are interested, I decided how to divide up the continents based partly on common sense and partly on the desire to make all the continents have as many countries as reasonably possible in them, so that none are too easy to get! The boundaries I used are these: Between South America and North America: The Panama canal on the mainland, the Equator in the Pacific and the gap between St Lucia and St Vincent in the Atlantic. Between North America and Asia: The International Date Line Between South America and Australasia: The International Date Line Between Australasia and Asia: The Equator Between Europe and North America: The Atlantic, with Iceland in Europe and Greenland in N. America Between Europe and Asia: The Bosporus, the Hellespont, and the 40 degree line going roughly from Rostv to Arkhangel'sk Between Africa and Asia: The Suez canal Between Antartica and the rest: the line 40 degrees south of the Equator, except that the Falkland Islands, Chile and Argentina are not in Antarctica. The result of all this is that quite a few countries are in more than one continent each, which is fun. Oh, and about Antarctica: according to the Antarctica Treaty 1959, no country is currently claiming to own any of mainland Antarctica. According to my definition there are various islands in the continent which are owned by other countries, but effectively most of Antarctica is a non-country. According to the current rules, "A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent", but it seems to me that it would be odd to say that someone possesses Antarctica if they manage to get hold of all the little islands round the edge but none of the actual land mass. So perhaps we should make a special procedure for getting possession of Antarctica? Anyway, the main thing I wanted to say was please vote for these proposals. :) Jamie PS I haven't put them in the archive yet, because for some reason the archive isn't letting me edit it, which is annoying but will hopefully sort itself out later. From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Dec 19 23:29:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 44790 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2002 07:29:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2002 07:29:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2002 07:29:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.145] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2002 07:29:18 -0000 Date: 20 Dec 2002 07:29:17 -0000 Message-ID: <1040369357.329.74851.w25@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home: The proposer of a poll can end the poll at any time before the time limit is up. When the poll is closed in this way, if every current player at the time of closing has voted on the proposal, and there are no votes against the proposal, then the proposal is considered passed and will be entered into the list of rules. o For't o Agin't To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1016445 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 20 18:35:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31738 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Dec 2002 02:35:30 -0000 Date: 21 Dec 2002 02:35:29 -0000 Message-ID: <1040438130.66.31727.m15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Fireflies: Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. "Coup d'etat: Canada" CHOICES AND RESULTS - In Favour, 1 votes, 100.00% - In Favour, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Dec 21 00:39:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 41442 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Dec 2002 08:39:08 -0000 Date: 21 Dec 2002 08:39:08 -0000 Message-ID: <1040459948.18.41441.m13@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Rules and Procedure: Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 5 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From racheledugdale@y... Sat Dec 21 03:12:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Dec 2002 11:12:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13098 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2002 11:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2002 11:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10708.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.216) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2002 11:12:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20021221111206.59144.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.124] by web10708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:12:06 GMT Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:12:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Official List Of Countries proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1040347189.358.53512.w61@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale I'm afraid I'm voting against this, not because I disagree with the countries or continents, but because of this little thing which you've tried to slip in as though it's uncontraversial: > When there are no such > countries left, it shall be the country > which has been possessed by its current > possessor for longest [which is given away]. I think that when the countries have run out, they've run out. Please amend this? Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Dec 22 06:03:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 22 Dec 2002 14:03:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 83346 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2002 14:03:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Dec 2002 14:03:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41202.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2002 14:03:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20021222140303.61734.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.180.44.39] by web41202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:03:03 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:03:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Official List Of Countries proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021221111206.59144.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston > > When there are no such > > countries left, it shall be the country > > which has been possessed by its current > > possessor for longest [which is given away]. > > I think that when the countries have run out, > they've > run out. I didn't 'slip this in', and I don't think it's controversial. What's the alternative, that when all the countries are in the possession of one or other player we just declare the game a stalemate? This seems the fairest way to me. In any case, anyone who glances at the file will deduce that the countries are not going to run out for a very long time, particularly at the present rate of less than one coup per year. My suggestion would be that anyone who approves of the general outline of this proposal should vote for it, and details can be amended later when there is a realistic possibility of the countries running out. I'm not going to amend the proposal, because it's a bit tiresome changing a proposal when people have already voted and I prefer not to do it. It also makes the proposals archive look a mess. Why delay the implementation of something we need now (the list of countries, which is required by the rules) because of something which will not become important for months or years? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Dec 22 07:34:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 22 Dec 2002 15:34:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 71959 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2002 15:34:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Dec 2002 15:34:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2002 15:34:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Dec 2002 15:34:07 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:34:06 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Archive of Proposals Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 235 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jamiekjohnston " X-Originating-IP: 172.180.44.39 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, I'm afraid yahoogroups keeps crashing when I try to edit the archive of proposals, so I'm afraid I haven't been able to update it yet. Sorry about that - if the problem doesn't clear up I'll just start a 'volume 2'. Jamie From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 22 09:58:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 67950 invoked by uid 7800); 22 Dec 2002 17:58:03 -0000 Date: 22 Dec 2002 17:58:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1040579883.34982704.39576.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader All polls will have a ten day time limit. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 12.10.02) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 12.20.02) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. [Last updated 22nd December 2002] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 22 18:34:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 63583 invoked by uid 7800); 23 Dec 2002 02:34:45 -0000 Date: 23 Dec 2002 02:34:45 -0000 Message-ID: <1040610885.18.63582.m11@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Choices Offered: The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 24 18:31:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 37156 invoked by uid 7800); 25 Dec 2002 02:31:41 -0000 Date: 25 Dec 2002 02:31:41 -0000 Message-ID: <1040783501.21.37155.m15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend Rule 2: Darth Vader to read: "The poll on each proposal shall close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed." CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 5 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 24 18:31:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 40639 invoked by uid 7800); 25 Dec 2002 02:31:52 -0000 Date: 25 Dec 2002 02:31:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1040783512.20.40635.m13@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend 'Rule 16: Pork-Barrel Rule' to read: When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, specifying the day (as an ordinal number), month (as a word) and year. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 80.00% - Against, 1 votes, 20.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Dec 25 00:38:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15023 invoked by uid 7800); 25 Dec 2002 08:38:01 -0000 Date: 25 Dec 2002 08:38:01 -0000 Message-ID: <1040805481.22.15022.m5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal: International Blitz *** The player known as Chris Goodwin (Yahoo profile archer1005) shall be in possession of the nation known as Australia. *** The player with the Yahoo profile blue373_2002 shall be in possession of the nation known as Belize. *** The player known as Jamie Johnston (Yahoo profile jamiekjohnston) shall be in possession of the nation known as Japan. *** The player known as Jeff (Yahoo profile punkbass_2000) shall be in possession of the nation known as Panama. *** The player known as Rachel Dugdale (Yahoo profile racheledugdale) shall be in possession of the nation known as Russia. *** The player known as Russ (Yahoo profile not available) shall be in possession of the nation known as Romania. *** The player with the Yahoo profile wandrerstefan shall be in possession of the nation known as Singapore (note: there were no sovereign nations beginning with W, so he gets an S instead) *** The player with the Yahoo profile jmlyle_yg shall be in possession of the nation known as Jamaica. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 75.00% - Against, 1 votes, 25.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Dec 27 08:10:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Dec 2002 16:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 12705 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2002 16:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2002 16:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41214.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.47) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2002 16:10:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20021227161015.74736.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.135.147.3] by web41214.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:10:15 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:10:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1040805481.22.15022.m5@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi, I think I've now updated all the relevant files. I'm still curious to know who made us keep the American dates on Bork-Barrel. Hope you're all enjoying the holidays. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 27 13:08:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12402 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2002 21:08:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2002 21:08:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2002 21:08:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2002 21:08:07 -0000 Date: 27 Dec 2002 21:08:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1041023287.567.71750.w27@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend 'Rule 16: Pork-Barrel Rule' to read: When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of YYYYMMDD. o Yeah o Nope To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1018337 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From zenomic@m... Fri Dec 27 13:08:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Dec 2002 21:08:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 86135 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2002 21:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2002 21:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2002 21:08:40 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18S1if-0007nf-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:08:39 -0800 To: Subject: Confession ....and Rule Infractions! Countries awarded! Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:06:56 -0500 Message-ID: <005a01c2adeb$e73fe7c0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021227161015.74736.qmail@w...> Importance: Normal From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg > >I'm >still curious to know who made us keep the American >dates on Bork-Barrel. > Sorry, that was me. I should have explained earlier, but I've been busy. I like the idea of having the date be in the form of a number that can be interpreted as a single 6 digit number. For example, currently Rule 16 states that if a country were coup d'etat'd today, the date would be listed as 122702. Also, this brings up another point. The way that it has actually been implemented into the rules list is wrong. Here is what is in the rules along with Rule 19: "Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 12.10.02" It should be 121002. NOW, according to Rule 20, I think that entering the date in the format show above is "found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule", this indicates to me that Rachel Dugdale should hereby be awarded Afghanistan. Rule 20 doesn't have any qualifications about when the rule was broken, so the time of infraction is effectively the time that it is pointed out to the group. Also, Rule 22 has a similar mis-formatting of the date, so Chris Goodwin gets Albania for the 2nd infraction. Congratulations, Rachel and Chris! On the point of changing the date format, I am certainly not tied to the American style. Sorry for the ethno-centricism. But, like I said, I think that having the format be interpretable as a single large number adds some potential fun. So how about a compromise? I tried to think of universal date formats, but thought that it would be a little awkward for us to use UNIX time (amount of seconds elapsed since 1.1.1970). In the end, I think the best would be to make it be in the form of YYYYMMDD. Today would be 20021227. This is actually the time format I use most often for sorting things chronologically (although, one of the things I liked about the American format for this use is the complete lack of chronological order to the numbers produced -- Two days one year apart would be consecutively numbered using the American format). I could go into the mathematics of conditional probability regarding the date format, but someone might argue that Jamie Johnston should be awarded Algeria if I did so, according to Rule 3 and Rule 20. Actually, I believe that it would not be an infraction, because Rule 3 actually states that one can't use "this list" to discuss the mathematics ...." The list being referred to can most easily be interpreted to be the list of rules, not the mailing list, so let the mass discussion of the mathematics of conditional probability ensue without the fear of reprisal. Anyway, I'll make the proposal about the date change. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 11:10 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Hi, I think I've now updated all the relevant files. I'm still curious to know who made us keep the American dates on Bork-Barrel. Hope you're all enjoying the holidays. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Fri Dec 27 13:30:42 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Dec 2002 21:30:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 91118 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2002 21:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2002 21:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2002 21:30:41 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18S23y-00025K-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:30:40 -0800 To: Subject: It's my Poll... Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:28:51 -0500 Message-ID: <005d01c2adee$fa4df570$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021227161015.74736.qmail@w...> Importance: Normal From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg I don't understand why people are voting against this one: It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home: The proposer of a poll can end the poll at any time before the time limit is up. When the poll is closed in this way, if every current player at the time of closing has voted on the proposal, and there are no votes against the proposal, then the proposal is considered passed and will be entered into the list of rules. Is there some aspect of this that I'm not thinking of? It seems to me like a logical proposition. If everyone agrees and votes "yes" for a poll, then it can be passed early. Actually, this was the state of things until December 24th, when Jamie amended Darth Vader to say "each proposal shall close on the tenth day" (from the original "all votes should have a ten day time limit"). Until that change, there was nothing preventing a poll from being ended early. And if everyone had voted "Yes," it should have been passed. I think the new wording of Darth Vader is designed just to extend voting in cases of revisions of the proposal. The statement about "No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed" does not apply to the situation to which I am referring because I am not saying that the proposal is withdrawn, it is "concluded." I think I will modify the text to reflect this specification, and Darth Vader therefore extends the voting timeframe for the poll. Please remember to vote for it! Or tell me why this proposal is bad. -- Martin From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Dec 27 13:37:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4930 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2002 21:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Dec 2002 21:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 2002 21:37:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Dec 2002 21:37:20 -0000 Date: 27 Dec 2002 21:37:20 -0000 Message-ID: <1041025040.533.7908.w54@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: The One Vote DOES Count Rule: If a poll closes without any affirmative votes (i.e. all votes are against passing the proposal) then the proposer of the poll will be awarded the first unowned country from the official list of the countries still available. o Good one. o Bad one. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1018345 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From zenomic@m... Fri Dec 27 22:42:49 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 06:42:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 4537 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 06:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 06:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.54) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 06:42:49 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18SAgI-0001TF-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:42:48 -0800 To: Subject: Motions Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 01:41:21 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01c2ae3c$250e9a60$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <1041025040.533.7908.w54@yahoogroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg I'd like to propose something and want to hear some feedback before forming the wording. This comes up due to my belief that Rule 20 should be invoked to award countries due to rule infractions (i.e. wrong date format being used in the list of rules). I think that this and other similar actions should be handled by what I'd call, for lack of a better name at the moment, Motions. Motions would be handled by the polling feature, but would be identified as a Motion and not a Rule Proposal. The wording of the Proposal to establish Motions, off the top of my head, might be: On Motions: A player may create a Poll to pass a Motion. The Poll should clearly identify itself as a Motion in the text of the Poll. The process and requirements for passing a Motion are the same as for passing a Rule. When a Motion is passed, it is entered into an official list of Passed Motions, at which time all aspects of the Motion take effect. This is pretty basic, but workable, I think. Maybe it should also offer a declaration of the intent and purpose of Motions. As I said earlier, what has lead me to this idea is that I think that two countries should be awarded because Rule 20 (On The Breaking Of Rules) specifies the consequences of incorrectly formatting the date in Rules 19 (On Elephants) and 22 (On Fireflies) as specified in Rule 16 (Pork-Barrel Rule). So the actual awarding of countries could be handled by a Motion like: Motion to enforce Rule 20: Jamie Johnston incorrectly formatted the date of a coup d'etat in Rule 19 (On Elephants) as specified in Rule 16 (Pork-Barrel Rule). This is, beyond reasonable doubt, an infraction of Rule 16. Therefore, as directed in Rule 20, Rachel Dugdale should hereby be awarded Afghanistan. And then another one for Rule 22 and Chris Goodwin getting Albania. Motions could be for any activity that changes states of things, but is not really appropriate to be an actual Rule. Maybe someone else can think of a better definition. Also, this calls for a new round of amendments or revisions to previous Rules to specify how Motions are to be used in regards to them. (i.e. Rule 20 should have a bit explaining how to use a Motion to declare the infraction and award the country). One problem is that this requires at least one more list to be maintained, and possibly two, if we want a list of Proposed Motions as well. This responsibility would, by tradition, fall to Jamie Johnston. All I can say is that I will not be able to maintain such lists myself, at the present time. Thoughts? -- Martin From racheledugdale@y... Sat Dec 28 02:02:23 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 10:02:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 21896 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 10:02:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 10:02:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10707.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.215) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 10:02:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20021228100221.66180.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.234.93] by web10707.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:02:21 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:02:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Official List Of Countries proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021222140303.61734.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > Why delay the implementation of something we > need now (the list of countries, which is required > by > the rules) because of something which will not > become > important for months or years? Well, I've voted for it so as to get the list validated, but remind me when we get closer to running out of countries that I'd like some amendments made :) Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Sat Dec 28 02:15:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 10:15:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 56004 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 10:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 10:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10708.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.216) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 10:15:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20021228101531.48554.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.234.93] by web10708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:15:31 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:15:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Confession ....and Rule Infractions! Countries awarded! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005a01c2adeb$e73fe7c0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > I like the idea of having the date be in the form of > a number that can > be interpreted as a single 6 digit number. Could definitely be interesting... > In > the end, I think the best would be to make it be in > the form of > YYYYMMDD. Today would be 20021227. Well, I like this version - it's the only way you can get spreadsheets & databases to sort anything by date anyway. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Sat Dec 28 11:41:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 19:41:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 30316 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 19:41:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 19:41:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10703.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.211) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 19:41:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20021228194124.88304.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.147.121.168] by web10703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:41:24 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:41:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] It's my Poll... To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005d01c2adee$fa4df570$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale --- Martin Lyle wrote: > I don't understand why people are voting against > this one: > > It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home Personally, from a purely pragmatic viewpoint - it won't be of any use to us at all, so I don't feel the need to add it to the rules. Basically. Because everyone subscribed to this email list is considered a player, and one of them *can't* vote, because he doesn't have a yahoo id (look at the list of members) and therefore the situation of everyone having voted will never arise. That's all :) Others may have other reasons. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Sat Dec 28 11:52:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 19:52:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 6688 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 19:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 19:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10702.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.210) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 19:52:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20021228195201.31035.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.147.121.168] by web10702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:52:01 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:52:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000e01c2ae3c$250e9a60$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale I'd like to point out the most recent amendment to Rule 4, which explicitly allows for something I called 'procedural motions', the aim of which was to allow for something doing (I think) basically the jobs you're talking about here. I'm not sure we need an explicit list of what can and can't be done by procedural motions - people can make them up as and when they want to propose them, and then if someone disagrees (or thinks it ought to be a rule, or whatever), they can simply vote against. But there could be a problem with motions (which have to pass, in the same way as any other proposals) being used to 'enforce' the rules - players shouldn't be able to veto, for example, countries being distributed according to the rules. It should just happen, in so far as it can. If you get my drift :) Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Sat Dec 28 15:06:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 23:06:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 71322 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 23:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 23:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41212.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 23:06:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20021228230654.51621.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.98.58] by web41212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:06:54 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:06:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Countries [not] awarded [yet please]! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005a01c2adeb$e73fe7c0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello, Martin's pointed out that there have been two instances of the rules being broken. Rule 20 states: "When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule" then various consequences follow. I don't think we've yet reached that stage - we've established that a rule has been broken, but not by whom it has been broken, and that's a necessary stage because the player who broke the rule has to be counted out for the purposes of awarding countries. It could have been either of the moderators, that is, myself or Rachel. The simplest next step would be for the two of us to say which of us it was. However, I'm not going to say whether it was me or not until the proposals 'On The Official List Of Players' and 'On The Official List Of Countries Still Available' have passed and become rules. I'll explain why. Rule 20 currently requires that when a player is found to have broken a rule, a player from the official list of players be given a country from the official list of countries still available. But there currently is no official list of players and no official list of countries still available, because these two proposals, which would make the lists I've typed up the 'official' lists, have not passed yet. So if we agreed, before these proposals passed, that we had found beyond reasonable doubt that a given player had broken a rule, we would be obliged but unable to perform this action, and consequently we would all be breaking the rules in not doing it; or, if we did award people countries, it would have to be from some non-official lists, thus also breaking the rules. And then when we'd broken the rules thus, we'd have to dish out countries, and so on. In short, it would be utter self-perpetuating chaos. So when we have an official list of players and an official list of countries still available, then I'll tell everyone whether or not it was me that broke the rule. Until then, I would advise that no one investigate too thoroughly. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Sat Dec 28 15:39:07 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 28 Dec 2002 23:39:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 49219 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2002 23:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2002 23:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41203.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2002 23:39:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20021228233907.4114.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.98.58] by web41203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:39:07 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:39:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Comments on some current proposals To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1041023287.567.71750.w27@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Just my thoughts on some of the proposals which are around at the moment. First, Martin's 'It's My Ball...' proposal. Rachel's practical point is a good one, but I have another reason for voting against this. It's just that I like to know that I have a fixed length of time in which I can change my mind if I want, and in which I can try to persuade other people to change theirs if I want. I'd feel disadvantaged if this opportunity weren't available. The amendment to change the dating system to YYYYMMDD: I don't like this system personally, because as much as it may be one which makes it easy for computers to sort and classify things by date, I'm not a computer, and I'm not a mathematically minded person either, so when I see a number like 20021227, I read it as a number (twenty million, twenty-one thousand, two hundred and twenty seven), which tells me precisely nothing about the date. Most dating systems used by people who want to know what the date it have some means of distinguishing between the day, the month and the year, since this is the information one is usually looking for in a date. However, since the rules currently specify a dating system even more unhelpful than the one now being proposed, I'll vote for this amendment. But I'd just like to stress one more time that if the purpose of putting a date there is so that people can find out when the thing happened, having a date rendered with no distinction between day, month and year is profoundly counterproductive for most people, and if the purpose is not to inform people but merely to cause the list of rules to contain confusing strings of digits, then there are better ways to do it. The 'One Vote DOES Count' proposal: I'm currently undecided about whether to vote for this or not. It's a new way to get countries handed out, which is good, but I don't really like the way it does it. My instinct is that it will interfere with and hamper the freedom of players to vote according purely to whether they want the proposal to pass or not - it will bring in tactical voting considerations, which I'm not very keen on. I'm going to vote against for the moment, but feel free to try to change my mind. 'Motions': Just to elaborate on what Rachel's already said, yes, there are already Procedural Motions which can do all the things the proposed 'Motions' are expected to do, so it seems a bit odd to try to introduce 'Motions'. To try to define closely what Procedural Motions can do would seem unnecessary, and would risk a situation arising in which we want to do something which can't be a Procedural Motion *or* a rule or amendment, in which case we'd have to create yet a fourth category of thing; whereas if we leave Procedural Motions undefined, they can do anything we want. Finally, as Rachel says, asking people to vote on whether or not the provisions of Rule 20 should be applied would be a bit of a nonsense, as everyone except the person who stood to be awarded the country would just vote against the proposal, and we'd have the same problem as before Rule 20 was passed: i.e. that no one could get a country without everyone else voting for them getting it. So my suggestion for a change to the wording of the proposal is that it would be better without any words in it. :) However, it probably would be useful to have a rule or amendment which clarifies how many people have to vote for a Procedural Motion for it to pass, how long it has to stay open, &c. These things are, by default, the same as for types of poll at the moment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 29 00:44:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29207 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2002 08:44:33 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2002 08:44:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1041151473.24.29206.m14@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Elephant Party: There will be a maximum of two elephants at any one time. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 2 votes, 50.00% - Against, 2 votes, 50.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 29 00:44:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 52187 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2002 08:44:33 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2002 08:44:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1041151473.26.52186.m15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Firefly Repellent: Fireflies are hereby extinct. There shall never in the future exist any entity or thing known as a firefly. Any entity or thing previously or currently known as a firefly is hereby eradicated from existence. "Coup d'etat: Equatorial Guinea" CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 1 votes, 25.00% - Against, 3 votes, 75.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - For - zenomic@m... - Against - punkbass_2000@y... - jamiekjohnston@y... - racheledugdale@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 29 00:45:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 52574 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2002 08:45:03 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2002 08:45:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1041151503.20.52573.m15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: All In Favor Rule (aka "Consensus is Confirmation", aka "Blind Patriotism") : If a poll (proposal) is ever in a state where it has been voted on by all players, and there are no votes against the proposal, it is considered passed, the poll will be closed, and the rule entered into the list of rules. "Coup d'etat: Eritrea" CHOICES AND RESULTS - Against, 3 votes, 75.00% - For, 1 votes, 25.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 29 00:45:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1150 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Dec 2002 08:45:03 -0000 Date: 29 Dec 2002 08:45:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1041151503.19.1149.m10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Elephant-olution: J. Martin Lyle is an elephant. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 2 votes, 50.00% - Against, 2 votes, 50.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - For - punkbass_2000@y... - zenomic@m... - Against - jamiekjohnston@y... - racheledugdale@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Dec 30 18:43:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95805 invoked by uid 7800); 31 Dec 2002 02:43:26 -0000 Date: 31 Dec 2002 02:43:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1041302606.21.95804.m8@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available: Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Dec 30 18:43:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 57674 invoked by uid 7800); 31 Dec 2002 02:43:27 -0000 Date: 31 Dec 2002 02:43:27 -0000 Message-ID: <1041302607.19.57673.m9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Official List Of Players: Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Dec 31 10:30:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 31 Dec 2002 18:30:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 36285 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2002 18:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2002 18:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41208.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 18:30:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20021231183007.29441.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.182.244.241] by web41208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:30:07 GMT Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:30:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Dishing out countries: Ages Please! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1041302607.19.57673.m9@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, Now that Rules 25 & 26 have passed, I can safely admit that I entered the dates incorrectly and therefore committed two counts of breaking the 'Pork-Barrel Rule'. As 'On The Breaking Of Rules' requires that it be established beyond reasonable doubt that I broke the rules, I hereby call for anyone with any grounds for doubting that I broke the rule to state them on this list by midnight on the 1st of Jan '03. If no one's said anything by then, I reckon we can consider that established beyond reasonable doubt and I'll give the relevant countries to the relevant people. Also, we've just passed Rule 25, so we now need to know everyone's age. This is so we can establish: a) who's eldest b) who's nearest to the mean age of all the players c) who's nearest to 30 d) which two players are closest together in age. I'm 21 (born 5th August 1981). By the way, whoever turns out to be eldest will get Monaco. I'm afraid it appears that Monaco is not a country as defined in this game, and is not in the official list, so it really isn't of much use, unless someone proposes a rule making it worthwhile to possess bits of land which aren't countries. Happy New Year, Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Dec 31 11:52:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 31 Dec 2002 19:52:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 16955 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2002 19:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2002 19:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41203.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.36) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 19:52:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20021231195243.99335.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.180.183.74] by web41203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:52:43 GMT Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:52:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Draft Proposals To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1041302607.19.57673.m9@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello again, I thought I'd follow Martin's example and invite comments on some proposals before making the polls. Please give any suggestions. First proposal ------- On Reasonable Doubt I: Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. ------- (Sorry that one's so long and cumbersome: if anyone can think of a way to cut it down, that would be useful.) Second proposal ------- On Reasonable Doubt II: If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule [??]: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule [??]: On Reasonable Doubt and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. The ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. ------- (Hmm, another long one. Again, any suggestion for cutting it down are welcome.) Thanks, Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Tue Dec 31 12:28:24 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 31 Dec 2002 20:28:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 78760 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2002 20:28:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2002 20:28:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40111.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 20:28:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20021231202820.76897.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:28:20 PST Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:28:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021231183007.29441.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 19 (19831020) --- Jamie Johnston wrote: > Hi all, > > Now that Rules 25 & 26 have passed, I can safely > admit > that I entered the dates incorrectly and therefore > committed two counts of breaking the 'Pork-Barrel > Rule'. As 'On The Breaking Of Rules' requires that > it > be established beyond reasonable doubt that I broke > the rules, I hereby call for anyone with any grounds > for doubting that I broke the rule to state them on > this list by midnight on the 1st of Jan '03. If no > one's said anything by then, I reckon we can > consider > that established beyond reasonable doubt and I'll > give > the relevant countries to the relevant people. > > Also, we've just passed Rule 25, so we now need to > know everyone's age. This is so we can establish: > a) who's eldest > b) who's nearest to the mean age of all the players > c) who's nearest to 30 > d) which two players are closest together in age. > > I'm 21 (born 5th August 1981). > > By the way, whoever turns out to be eldest will get > Monaco. I'm afraid it appears that Monaco is not a > country as defined in this game, and is not in the > official list, so it really isn't of much use, > unless > someone proposes a rule making it worthwhile to > possess bits of land which aren't countries. > > Happy New Year, > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Tue Dec 31 12:32:50 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 31 Dec 2002 20:32:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 15095 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2002 20:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2002 20:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40109.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.43) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 20:32:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20021231203250.90576.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:32:50 PST Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:32:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: On Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021231195243.99335.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I believe a motion should be any action that is dictated by the rule set. It is unstoppable and should be recorded, especially when countries are passed out. I will propose the above except with more force and definitiveness if no one objects, 'A motion is any action that is dictated by the rule set. It is unstoppable and must be recorded.' I suppose a followup rule on the recording of motions will need to be proposd. ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Jan 01 04:59:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 1 Jan 2003 12:59:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 95116 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2003 12:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2003 12:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41211.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.44) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2003 12:59:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20030101125902.56318.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.183.3.15] by web41211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:59:02 GMT Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:59:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021231202820.76897.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Jeff wrote: > 19 (19831020) Oh good grief, must we have *every* date in the game in this confusing format? :) But seriously, thanks Jeff. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Jan 01 05:01:49 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 1 Jan 2003 13:01:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 44814 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2003 13:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2003 13:01:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41215.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.48) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2003 13:01:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20030101130148.25962.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.183.3.15] by web41215.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 13:01:48 GMT Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:01:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021231203250.90576.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Jeff wrote: > 'A motion is any > action that is dictated by the rule set. It is > unstoppable and must be recorded. This sounds fine, but mightn't it be confusing if we call these things 'motions', since we already have 'procedural motions', which are quite different? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From archer7@a... Wed Jan 01 08:02:26 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: archer7@a... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 1 Jan 2003 16:02:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 2222 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2003 16:02:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2003 16:02:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc01.attbi.com) (204.127.202.61) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2003 16:02:26 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (12-237-223-239.client.attbi.com[12.237.223.239]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with SMTP id <20030101160225001003mtdqe>; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:02:25 +0000 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:02:10 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: archer@chrislis To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Digest Number 137 In-Reply-To: <1041430858.203.43525.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Chris Goodwin Reply-To: Chris Goodwin X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=128637523 X-Yahoo-Profile: archer1005 On 1 Jan 2003 Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com wrote: > Also, we've just passed Rule 25, so we now need to > know everyone's age. This is so we can establish: > a) who's eldest > b) who's nearest to the mean age of all the players > c) who's nearest to 30 > d) which two players are closest together in age. I'm 32. Birthdate: April 3, 1970 3 April, 1970 19700403 030470 03041970 Did I miss anything? -- Chris Goodwin archer7@a... From wandrer@w... Wed Jan 01 09:12:53 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 1 Jan 2003 17:12:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 51619 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2003 17:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2003 17:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2003 17:12:52 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030101171249.ZSTN3670.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:12:49 +0100 Message-ID: <002c01c2b1b9$68634ec0$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <20030101125902.56318.qmail@w...> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:15:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan 21 (19811128). Talk about confusing... Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: A Christmas Carol In Bricks http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/lego/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Johnston" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! > Jeff wrote: > > > 19 (19831020) > > Oh good grief, must we have *every* date in the game > in this confusing format? :) > > But seriously, thanks Jeff. > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Jan 01 12:30:37 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 1 Jan 2003 20:30:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 24058 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2003 20:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2003 20:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41213.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.46) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2003 20:30:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20030101203037.90354.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.179.135.60] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:30:37 GMT Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:30:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002c01c2b1b9$68634ec0$44642ed5@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Thanks Chris & Stefan. By the way, I'm not quite sure what we're going to do if we don't manage to get all the players to confess their ages. Hmm... Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Jan 01 16:37:31 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 00:37:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 73706 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 00:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 00:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40111.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.45) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 00:37:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102003730.32512.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:37:30 PST Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:37:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030101130148.25962.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 True enough. I'm not sure what to call them then, though. 'Action' comes to mind, but defining a word with itself is not very useful. --- Jamie Johnston wrote: > Jeff wrote: > > > 'A motion is any > > action that is dictated by the rule set. It is > > unstoppable and must be recorded. > > This sounds fine, but mightn't it be confusing if we > call these things 'motions', since we already have > 'procedural motions', which are quite different? > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Jan 01 16:41:21 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 00:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 47597 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 00:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 00:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40106.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 00:41:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102004120.35359.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:41:20 PST Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:41:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030101203037.90354.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 New proposal? :) 'All players must give their birthdate according to the Gregorian calendar' :P --- Jamie Johnston wrote: > Thanks Chris & Stefan. > > By the way, I'm not quite sure what we're going to > do > if we don't manage to get all the players to confess > their ages. Hmm... > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Wed Jan 01 22:17:36 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 06:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 28741 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 06:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 06:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 06:17:35 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Tyfd-0006Ut-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:17:35 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 01:16:00 -0500 Message-ID: <002101c2b226$6f55f1c0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021231183007.29441.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 33. I think. Born 13th August, 1969. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 1:30 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! Hi all, Now that Rules 25 & 26 have passed, I can safely admit that I entered the dates incorrectly and therefore committed two counts of breaking the 'Pork-Barrel Rule'. As 'On The Breaking Of Rules' requires that it be established beyond reasonable doubt that I broke the rules, I hereby call for anyone with any grounds for doubting that I broke the rule to state them on this list by midnight on the 1st of Jan '03. If no one's said anything by then, I reckon we can consider that established beyond reasonable doubt and I'll give the relevant countries to the relevant people. Also, we've just passed Rule 25, so we now need to know everyone's age. This is so we can establish: a) who's eldest b) who's nearest to the mean age of all the players c) who's nearest to 30 d) which two players are closest together in age. I'm 21 (born 5th August 1981). By the way, whoever turns out to be eldest will get Monaco. I'm afraid it appears that Monaco is not a country as defined in this game, and is not in the official list, so it really isn't of much use, unless someone proposes a rule making it worthwhile to possess bits of land which aren't countries. Happy New Year, Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Wed Jan 01 22:58:47 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 06:58:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 48823 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 06:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 06:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 06:58:46 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18TzJT-0005C3-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:58:45 -0800 To: Subject: Date format in Pork Barrel Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 01:57:10 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c2b22c$2fb56f40$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021228233907.4114.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Okay, it's really not a big deal to me either way, but here are my thoughts on the date format, in brief: - The original intent was to be an historical notation - JUST being an historical notation wasn't interesting enough - Putting the date into a format which could also be interpretable as another number (which ideally would have a different ordering than the chronological ordering resulting from interpreting it as a date) could provide an odd twist in the game. If certain rules (or more specifically, according to this rule, certain coup d'etat's) have a relatively unpredictable number associated with them, then it provides an Opportunity for Something Interesting (and, no, I have nothing in mind). - I actually would like ALL rules dated/ numbered in SOME fashion With this in mind, I realize that I actually much prefer the format of DDMMYY, because - It makes the MOST sense for recording a date (although it is not what some people are used to seeing) - It makes the LEAST sense sequentially - Each consecutive day in one month is 10000 different in order - The end of one month and the beginning of the next month are vastly different (310102 is the day before 010202) SO, I'm going to revise it again, even though everyone has voted yes so far. Let's see what happens.... -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 6:39 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Comments on some current proposals Just my thoughts on some of the proposals which are around at the moment. First, Martin's 'It's My Ball...' proposal. Rachel's practical point is a good one, but I have another reason for voting against this. It's just that I like to know that I have a fixed length of time in which I can change my mind if I want, and in which I can try to persuade other people to change theirs if I want. I'd feel disadvantaged if this opportunity weren't available. The amendment to change the dating system to YYYYMMDD: I don't like this system personally, because as much as it may be one which makes it easy for computers to sort and classify things by date, I'm not a computer, and I'm not a mathematically minded person either, so when I see a number like 20021227, I read it as a number (twenty million, twenty-one thousand, two hundred and twenty seven), which tells me precisely nothing about the date. Most dating systems used by people who want to know what the date it have some means of distinguishing between the day, the month and the year, since this is the information one is usually looking for in a date. However, since the rules currently specify a dating system even more unhelpful than the one now being proposed, I'll vote for this amendment. But I'd just like to stress one more time that if the purpose of putting a date there is so that people can find out when the thing happened, having a date rendered with no distinction between day, month and year is profoundly counterproductive for most people, and if the purpose is not to inform people but merely to cause the list of rules to contain confusing strings of digits, then there are better ways to do it. The 'One Vote DOES Count' proposal: I'm currently undecided about whether to vote for this or not. It's a new way to get countries handed out, which is good, but I don't really like the way it does it. My instinct is that it will interfere with and hamper the freedom of players to vote according purely to whether they want the proposal to pass or not - it will bring in tactical voting considerations, which I'm not very keen on. I'm going to vote against for the moment, but feel free to try to change my mind. 'Motions': Just to elaborate on what Rachel's already said, yes, there are already Procedural Motions which can do all the things the proposed 'Motions' are expected to do, so it seems a bit odd to try to introduce 'Motions'. To try to define closely what Procedural Motions can do would seem unnecessary, and would risk a situation arising in which we want to do something which can't be a Procedural Motion *or* a rule or amendment, in which case we'd have to create yet a fourth category of thing; whereas if we leave Procedural Motions undefined, they can do anything we want. Finally, as Rachel says, asking people to vote on whether or not the provisions of Rule 20 should be applied would be a bit of a nonsense, as everyone except the person who stood to be awarded the country would just vote against the proposal, and we'd have the same problem as before Rule 20 was passed: i.e. that no one could get a country without everyone else voting for them getting it. So my suggestion for a change to the wording of the proposal is that it would be better without any words in it. :) However, it probably would be useful to have a rule or amendment which clarifies how many people have to vote for a Procedural Motion for it to pass, how long it has to stay open, &c. These things are, by default, the same as for types of poll at the moment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Wed Jan 01 23:08:12 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 07:08:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 67004 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 07:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 07:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 07:08:12 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18TzSZ-0003tV-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:08:08 -0800 To: Subject: 'One Vote DOES Count' Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:06:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c2b22d$7f562660$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021228233907.4114.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg >My >instinct is that it will interfere with and hamper the >freedom of players to vote according purely to whether >they want the proposal to pass or not - it will bring >in tactical voting considerations, which I'm not very >keen on. I'm going to vote against for the moment, but >feel free to try to change my mind. Well, I actually favor tactical voting situations. I think it's much more interesting if you have to weigh more than just the value of the proposal. I think that, not only can it be a way to get a country awarded, but more likely, it's a way for someone to sneak a Proposal in. It's possible that someone could get a Rule passed with just two votes, even though the second voter didn't like the Proposal. It would be a rare situation, but I think it would be amusing to see the things that people come up with to try and take advantage of this rule. By the way, I have amended the Proposal to specify that at least TWO votes must be placed for the rule to have effect. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 6:39 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Comments on some current proposals Just my thoughts on some of the proposals which are around at the moment. First, Martin's 'It's My Ball...' proposal. Rachel's practical point is a good one, but I have another reason for voting against this. It's just that I like to know that I have a fixed length of time in which I can change my mind if I want, and in which I can try to persuade other people to change theirs if I want. I'd feel disadvantaged if this opportunity weren't available. The amendment to change the dating system to YYYYMMDD: I don't like this system personally, because as much as it may be one which makes it easy for computers to sort and classify things by date, I'm not a computer, and I'm not a mathematically minded person either, so when I see a number like 20021227, I read it as a number (twenty million, twenty-one thousand, two hundred and twenty seven), which tells me precisely nothing about the date. Most dating systems used by people who want to know what the date it have some means of distinguishing between the day, the month and the year, since this is the information one is usually looking for in a date. However, since the rules currently specify a dating system even more unhelpful than the one now being proposed, I'll vote for this amendment. But I'd just like to stress one more time that if the purpose of putting a date there is so that people can find out when the thing happened, having a date rendered with no distinction between day, month and year is profoundly counterproductive for most people, and if the purpose is not to inform people but merely to cause the list of rules to contain confusing strings of digits, then there are better ways to do it. The 'One Vote DOES Count' proposal: I'm currently undecided about whether to vote for this or not. It's a new way to get countries handed out, which is good, but I don't really like the way it does it. My instinct is that it will interfere with and hamper the freedom of players to vote according purely to whether they want the proposal to pass or not - it will bring in tactical voting considerations, which I'm not very keen on. I'm going to vote against for the moment, but feel free to try to change my mind. 'Motions': Just to elaborate on what Rachel's already said, yes, there are already Procedural Motions which can do all the things the proposed 'Motions' are expected to do, so it seems a bit odd to try to introduce 'Motions'. To try to define closely what Procedural Motions can do would seem unnecessary, and would risk a situation arising in which we want to do something which can't be a Procedural Motion *or* a rule or amendment, in which case we'd have to create yet a fourth category of thing; whereas if we leave Procedural Motions undefined, they can do anything we want. Finally, as Rachel says, asking people to vote on whether or not the provisions of Rule 20 should be applied would be a bit of a nonsense, as everyone except the person who stood to be awarded the country would just vote against the proposal, and we'd have the same problem as before Rule 20 was passed: i.e. that no one could get a country without everyone else voting for them getting it. So my suggestion for a change to the wording of the proposal is that it would be better without any words in it. :) However, it probably would be useful to have a rule or amendment which clarifies how many people have to vote for a Procedural Motion for it to pass, how long it has to stay open, &c. These things are, by default, the same as for types of poll at the moment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Wed Jan 01 23:18:11 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 07:18:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 63056 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 07:18:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 07:18:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 07:18:10 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18TzcE-0002Vb-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:18:08 -0800 To: Subject: It's My Ball... Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:16:31 -0500 Message-ID: <002801c2b22e$e5007f50$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021228233907.4114.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg >First, Martin's 'It's My Ball...' proposal. Rachel's >practical point is a good one, but I have another >reason for voting against this. It's just that I like >to know that I have a fixed length of time in which I >can change my mind if I want, and in which I can try >to persuade other people to change theirs if I want. >I'd feel disadvantaged if this opportunity weren't >available. Well, I'm not sure what Rachel's practical point was , but I can kind of see your point, although it seems to me that if every player had voted, and every player favored the Proposal, then it would be very unlikely that anyone would try to persuade anyone else to change. It's intended as a way to expedite a unanimous decision. This might be very useful if we ever feel the need to get a Rule in quickly for some reason, either to meet a deadline, or to fix some odd quirk of logic which is causing a problem. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 6:39 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Comments on some current proposals Just my thoughts on some of the proposals which are around at the moment. First, Martin's 'It's My Ball...' proposal. Rachel's practical point is a good one, but I have another reason for voting against this. It's just that I like to know that I have a fixed length of time in which I can change my mind if I want, and in which I can try to persuade other people to change theirs if I want. I'd feel disadvantaged if this opportunity weren't available. The amendment to change the dating system to YYYYMMDD: I don't like this system personally, because as much as it may be one which makes it easy for computers to sort and classify things by date, I'm not a computer, and I'm not a mathematically minded person either, so when I see a number like 20021227, I read it as a number (twenty million, twenty-one thousand, two hundred and twenty seven), which tells me precisely nothing about the date. Most dating systems used by people who want to know what the date it have some means of distinguishing between the day, the month and the year, since this is the information one is usually looking for in a date. However, since the rules currently specify a dating system even more unhelpful than the one now being proposed, I'll vote for this amendment. But I'd just like to stress one more time that if the purpose of putting a date there is so that people can find out when the thing happened, having a date rendered with no distinction between day, month and year is profoundly counterproductive for most people, and if the purpose is not to inform people but merely to cause the list of rules to contain confusing strings of digits, then there are better ways to do it. The 'One Vote DOES Count' proposal: I'm currently undecided about whether to vote for this or not. It's a new way to get countries handed out, which is good, but I don't really like the way it does it. My instinct is that it will interfere with and hamper the freedom of players to vote according purely to whether they want the proposal to pass or not - it will bring in tactical voting considerations, which I'm not very keen on. I'm going to vote against for the moment, but feel free to try to change my mind. 'Motions': Just to elaborate on what Rachel's already said, yes, there are already Procedural Motions which can do all the things the proposed 'Motions' are expected to do, so it seems a bit odd to try to introduce 'Motions'. To try to define closely what Procedural Motions can do would seem unnecessary, and would risk a situation arising in which we want to do something which can't be a Procedural Motion *or* a rule or amendment, in which case we'd have to create yet a fourth category of thing; whereas if we leave Procedural Motions undefined, they can do anything we want. Finally, as Rachel says, asking people to vote on whether or not the provisions of Rule 20 should be applied would be a bit of a nonsense, as everyone except the person who stood to be awarded the country would just vote against the proposal, and we'd have the same problem as before Rule 20 was passed: i.e. that no one could get a country without everyone else voting for them getting it. So my suggestion for a change to the wording of the proposal is that it would be better without any words in it. :) However, it probably would be useful to have a rule or amendment which clarifies how many people have to vote for a Procedural Motion for it to pass, how long it has to stay open, &c. These things are, by default, the same as for types of poll at the moment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Wed Jan 01 23:34:59 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 07:34:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 5704 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 07:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 07:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 07:34:58 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18TzsV-0005QT-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:34:57 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Official List Of Countries proposal Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:33:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c2b231$3e12b430$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20021228100221.66180.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Odd, I seem to have missed receiving a few messages, which explains why I didn't know what "Rachel's practical point" was. -- Martin From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 01 23:54:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16673 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 07:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 07:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 07:54:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.138] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2003 07:54:35 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2003 07:54:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1041494074.179.40903.w19@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Spivak Pronouns: The use of gender pronouns in Polls and all offical lists shall be governed by the following standards: 1) E - subjective 2) Em - objective 3) Eir - possessive (adjective) 4) Eirs - possessive (noun) 5) Emself - reflexive Examples: E broke a rule. A country was awarded to em. Eir decision was final. The decision was eirs alone. E claimed it for emself. o Okay o No way To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019916 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 02 00:02:49 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19573 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 08:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 08:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 08:02:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2003 08:02:49 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:02:45 -0000 Message-ID: <1041494565.761.22999.w54@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3: Upon taking possession of Monaco, the player who gains control of Monaco can subsequently chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides emself. The power to take this action exists as long as that player holds possession of Monaco, but may only be taken once per possession of Monaco. If another player takes possession of Monaco, and then the original player takes possession of Monaco again, the power is reinstated to the original payer, with the one-time use limitation. o Yea o Nay To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019917 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 02 00:30:05 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84605 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 08:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 08:30:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 08:30:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.168] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2003 08:30:04 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:30:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1041496203.247.28032.w46@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Monaco and Eir Many Masters: Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of an animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed. Also, any time that there are more than 5 votes for a Proposal to become a Rule, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (whether the Proposal passes or not), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed. In both cases, Posession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. o Oh YEAH! o Um, no. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019925 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 06:15:05 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 14:15:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 51115 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 14:15:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 14:15:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41209.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.42) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 14:15:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102141505.44683.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.88.153] by web41209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:15:05 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:15:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030102003730.32512.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Jeff wrote: > I'm not sure what to call them then, > though. 'Action' comes to mind, but defining a word > with itself is not very useful. Yes, I'm not sure I have any useful ideas. Possibly 'Act', but that's a bit close to 'action' and also might be confusing since laws in some countries are called Acts. 'Procedure' would have the same problem as 'Motion'. Hmm. 'Event'? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 06:48:22 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 14:48:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 66827 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 14:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 14:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41202.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 14:48:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102144822.96758.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.88.153] by web41202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:48:22 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:48:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Further thoughts on the current proposals To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002601c2b22c$2fb56f40$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello. PORK-BARREL RULE: I much prefer the DDMMYY format, since this it's at least a logical chronological progression as you read left to right. I would still prefer some separation between the numbers, but I appreciate that that would make it harder to manipulate the dates as numbers. So I'm voting for this one. I'm also requesting that people please inform the list clearly (as Martin has done in this case) when they change their proposals, as the site doesn't automatically send out notification as it does when a new poll is created. I shall propose a rule to make this mandatory shortly, but until then it would be nice if we could try to do it anyway. ONE VOTE DOES COUNT: I'm afraid Martin and I are unlikely to agree on this one. I'm really a simple soul, and I get confused. If I had to decide whether to vote for a proposal based not just on whether I liked it or not but on who else is voting and how, and whether it would result in people getting countries, I'd get in a terrible muddle and I suspect I wouldn't find it very enjoyable. I'm certainly not advocating a strict separation between the 'game' and the rules, but this would be a bit too linked for my taste. I'm still voting against. IT'S MY BALL: Yes, now it's pointed out I can see that it's unlikely that this would conflict with people's ability to change each other's minds. However, I would prefer all polls to close when they're expected to close, becuase it's confusing when they don't (yes, I know it was my fault last time) and it makes the proposals archive messy, &c. I can see the merit in being able to pass a rule more speedily than normal in cases of necessity, but I'd rather it didn't happen automatically - perhaps this could be better achieved by creating a procedural motion to close a poll early if everyone has voted in favour of it. Also, Rachel's point that the circumstances set out by the rule are unlikely to be met because of our inactive players remains true. So I'm still voting against. SPIVAK PRONOUNS: Must we? We've managed perfectly well so far without using pronouns at all - only one rule contains pronouns, and that one specifies 'he or she', which seems to me adequately egalitarian. Surely these new pronouns would just be confusing. Also, the wording is not clear as to whether these pronouns would be required to replace the pronoun 'it' and related words: neuter is a gender, after all, but none of the examples seem to deal with such cases. Finally, they all begin with long vowels, whereas English pronouns begin either with consonants or short vowels, and the result is that replacing any English pronoun with these new ones makes the sentence sound awkward and hard to pronounce smoothly, unless one employs a glottle-stop, which some people find difficult. I'm voting against. THE TAKING OF MONACO 1,2,3: This is interesting, but very confusingly worded. The last sentence seems to imply that the power which comes with possession of Monaco is only given to the first player who possesses it, and not subsequent ones. Or if that's not the implication, I can't work out what is. Also there is a 'one-time use limitation' referred to as though it has already been set out earlier in the proposal, but it doesn't seem to have been. Also, the pronouns are written neither in English nor in any other form which has been authorized by the rules, and it is therefore meaningless until a rule is passed which defines words like 'emself'. Such a rule is unlikely to be passed, since I'm likely to vote against it. So I'm voting against this one, though I might well vote in favour if it were re-presented in a clearer form and using English pronouns. MONACO AND EIR MANY MASTERS: This proposal sounds interesting, and I would vote in favour of it if the pronouns were in English. If the proposer amends it, he or she might also wish to add another 's' to the word 'posession' in the last sentence. Also, it might be useful to specify whether the definition of 'possession' is same with regard to Monaco as it is with regard to countries. I'm voting against because of the pronouns. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 07:05:34 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 15:05:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 22096 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41206.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:05:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102150517.71454.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.88.153] by web41206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:05:17 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:05:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Rule Broken JML 5 A To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1041494565.761.22999.w54@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello. I know my proposals about reasonable doubt haven't even been formally proposed yet, but I thought since a rule seems to have been broken anyway I might as well test the format to see if it works well. So, yes, it seems to me that Martin has broken Rule 5: Bob by presenting a poll (entitled The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3) which contains the word 'emself'. This word appears to be intended as a pronoun, but it is not an English word or an alternative which is allowed by the current rules. I think it is fairly clear that it's not a typing error, when considered in the context of the proposal 'Spivak Pronouns'. I invite players to raise any doubts they have about the validity of this suspicion. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 07:07:32 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 15:07:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 33931 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:07:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:07:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41209.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.42) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:07:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102150731.53917.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.88.153] by web41209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:07:31 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:07:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Rule Broken JML 5 B To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1041496203.247.28032.w46@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello again. It seems to me that Martin has broken Rule 5: Bob a second time by presenting a poll (entitled Monaco and Eir Many Masters) which contains the word 'eir'. This word appears to be intended as a pronoun, but it is not an English word or an alternative which is allowed by the current rules. I think it is fairly clear that it's not a typing error, when considered in the context of the proposal 'Spivak Pronouns'. I invite players to raise any doubts they have about the validity of this suspicion. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 07:14:00 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 15:14:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 51780 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:14:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:14:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41208.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:14:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102151359.26343.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.88.153] by web41208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:13:59 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:13:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Countries awarded To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030102144822.96758.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello. In accordance with Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, Rachel has been given possession of Afghanistan, and Chris G. possession of Albania. These are respectively in Asia and Europe. The appropriate files have been altered accordinly. Well done. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 07:29:51 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 15:29:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 86223 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41209.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:29:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102152922.57320.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.88.153] by web41209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:29:22 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:29:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Danger of more rules being broken To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030102150731.53917.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello again. I've just noticed, Martin's in danger of breaking rule 2: Darth Vader. The rules says 'The poll on each proposal shall close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed'. Martin, you've created three polls on the 2nd and set them to close on the 13th, which is the *eleventh* day after the 2nd. I'm normally rather shaky on the difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers, but I'm fairly certain about this one. Also, I suspect your amendment of the Pork-Barrel and One Vote polls occurred on the 2nd, and ought therefore to close on the 12th rather than the 13th. Now, Darth Vader is a bit unclear on this. It says when the polls shall close, but it doesn't say that they have to be *set* to close on the tenth day, so I don't think the rule has actually been broken yet, but it will be if they don't close on the tenth day. So to avoid this you'll need to close them on the 12th, or re-set them now to close automatically on that day. I shall propose an amendment to make the wording of Darth Vader clearer. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 02 07:32:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 63099 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:32:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.185] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2003 15:32:11 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2003 15:32:10 -0000 Message-ID: <1041521530.195.82319.w61@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend Rule 2: Darth Vader to read: 'The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed.' o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1020022 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 02 07:35:21 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 60067 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:35:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:35:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:35:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2003 15:35:21 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2003 15:35:18 -0000 Message-ID: <1041521718.98.58385.w60@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Notification: Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1020025 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 07:54:28 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 15:54:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 38636 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 15:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 15:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 15:54:27 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18U7ft-0005Z1-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 07:54:26 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:52:49 -0500 Message-ID: <003c01c2b277$03a766b0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030102141505.44683.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg >'Act', but that's a bit close to 'action' and also >might be confusing since laws in some countries are >called Acts. 'Procedure' would have the same problem >as 'Motion'. Hmm. 'Event' How about calling them "Tina?" -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:15 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions Jeff wrote: > I'm not sure what to call them then, > though. 'Action' comes to mind, but defining a word > with itself is not very useful. Yes, I'm not sure I have any useful ideas. Possibly 'Act', but that's a bit close to 'action' and also might be confusing since laws in some countries are called Acts. 'Procedure' would have the same problem as 'Motion'. Hmm. 'Event'? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 02 08:57:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 16:57:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 64040 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 16:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 16:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41213.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.46) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 16:57:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102165703.40035.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.28.81] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:57:03 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:57:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <003c01c2b277$03a766b0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Martin wrote: > How about calling them "Tina?" Tricky to pluralize. Would it be Tinae, or Tinas? Or would Tina be the collective name, in which case what would each one be called individually? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Thu Jan 02 09:53:34 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 17:53:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 17631 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 17:53:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 17:53:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40109.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.43) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 17:53:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20030102175333.60767.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:53:33 PST Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:53:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] On Motions To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030102165703.40035.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 'Tini'? --- Jamie Johnston wrote: > Martin wrote: > > > How about calling them "Tina?" > > Tricky to pluralize. Would it be Tinae, or Tinas? Or > would Tina be the collective name, in which case > what > would each one be called individually? > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 14:07:32 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 22:07:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 53643 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 22:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 22:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 22:07:32 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UDUq-0006ml-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:07:26 -0800 To: Subject: Doubt Raised JML 5 B Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:05:41 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c2b2ab$1db30b20$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030102150731.53917.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 5 states simply that "All polls should be presented in the English language." The word "should" does not imply necessity, and therefore using something other than English in a proposal is NOT breaking a rule. should aux.v. Past tense of shall 1. Used to express obligation or duty: You should send her a note. 2. Used to express probability or expectation: They should arrive at noon. 3. Used to express conditionality or contingency: If she should fall, then so would I. 4. Used to moderate the directness or bluntness of a statement: I should think he would like to go. Usage Note: Like the rules governing the use of shall and will on which they are based, the traditional rules governing the use of should and would are largely ignored in modern American practice. Either should or would can now be used in the first person to express conditional futurity: If I had known that, I would (or somewhat more formally, should) have answered differently. But in the second and third persons only would is used: If he had known that, he would (not should) have answered differently. Would cannot always be substituted for should, however. Should is used in all three persons in a conditional clause: if I (or you or he) should decide to go. Should is also used in all three persons to express duty or obligation (the equivalent of ought to): I (or you or he) should go. On the other hand, would is used to express volition or promise: I agreed that I would do it. Either would or should is possible as an auxiliary with like, be inclined, be glad, prefer, and related verbs: I would (or should) like to call your attention to an oversight. Here would was acceptable on all levels to a large majority of the Usage Panel in an earlier survey and is more common in American usage than should. .Should have is sometimes incorrectly written should of by writers who have mistaken the source of the spoken contraction should've. See Usage Note at if. See Usage Note at rather. See Usage Note at shall. Source: The American HeritageR Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright C 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:08 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Rule Broken JML 5 B Hello again. It seems to me that Martin has broken Rule 5: Bob a second time by presenting a poll (entitled Monaco and Eir Many Masters) which contains the word 'eir'. This word appears to be intended as a pronoun, but it is not an English word or an alternative which is allowed by the current rules. I think it is fairly clear that it's not a typing error, when considered in the context of the proposal 'Spivak Pronouns'. I invite players to raise any doubts they have about the validity of this suspicion. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 14:08:22 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 22:08:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 81257 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 22:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 22:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 22:08:22 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UDVf-0000AX-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:08:17 -0800 To: Subject: Doubt Raised JML 5 A Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:06:31 -0500 Message-ID: <005701c2b2ab$3c3e41e0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030102150517.71454.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule 5 states simply that "All polls should be presented in the English language." The word "should" does not imply necessity, and therefore using something other than English in a proposal is NOT breaking a rule. should aux.v. Past tense of shall 1. Used to express obligation or duty: You should send her a note. 2. Used to express probability or expectation: They should arrive at noon. 3. Used to express conditionality or contingency: If she should fall, then so would I. 4. Used to moderate the directness or bluntness of a statement: I should think he would like to go. Usage Note: Like the rules governing the use of shall and will on which they are based, the traditional rules governing the use of should and would are largely ignored in modern American practice. Either should or would can now be used in the first person to express conditional futurity: If I had known that, I would (or somewhat more formally, should) have answered differently. But in the second and third persons only would is used: If he had known that, he would (not should) have answered differently. Would cannot always be substituted for should, however. Should is used in all three persons in a conditional clause: if I (or you or he) should decide to go. Should is also used in all three persons to express duty or obligation (the equivalent of ought to): I (or you or he) should go. On the other hand, would is used to express volition or promise: I agreed that I would do it. Either would or should is possible as an auxiliary with like, be inclined, be glad, prefer, and related verbs: I would (or should) like to call your attention to an oversight. Here would was acceptable on all levels to a large majority of the Usage Panel in an earlier survey and is more common in American usage than should. .Should have is sometimes incorrectly written should of by writers who have mistaken the source of the spoken contraction should've. See Usage Note at if. See Usage Note at rather. See Usage Note at shall. Source: The American HeritageR Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright C 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:05 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Rule Broken JML 5 A Hello. I know my proposals about reasonable doubt haven't even been formally proposed yet, but I thought since a rule seems to have been broken anyway I might as well test the format to see if it works well. So, yes, it seems to me that Martin has broken Rule 5: Bob by presenting a poll (entitled The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3) which contains the word 'emself'. This word appears to be intended as a pronoun, but it is not an English word or an alternative which is allowed by the current rules. I think it is fairly clear that it's not a typing error, when considered in the context of the proposal 'Spivak Pronouns'. I invite players to raise any doubts they have about the validity of this suspicion. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 14:40:56 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 22:40:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 32804 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 22:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 22:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 22:40:55 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UE1E-00075p-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:40:54 -0800 To: Subject: The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:39:14 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c2b2af$ca9e7b40$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <1041494565.761.22999.w54@yahoogroups.com> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg It was late. I was tired. The intention was this: When a person takes control of Monaco (and this wouldn't include the first owner, since that person will take possession before this rule would be in effect), they get the Power (which I think is clear in it's description). That person can use this power at any point starting from that moment, until they lose possession, but they can only use it once. It should definitely be re-worded. Maybe something more like this: At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco, that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. Is this clear and logically correct to mean that every time someone gains possession, they get the ability to use the power once? And the power is not reinstated for that person unless Monaco is actually possessed by someone else first. In other words, if I get Monaco, I get the ability to use the power. If I use it, I'm done. Another rule that I've proposed specifies that under certain conditions, Monaco is liberated from whoever possesses it and then awarded to someone (maybe a different person, maybe the same person). If I had had Monaco before this event and had used the Power, then Monaco was liberated and awarded to me (without going to someone else in the interim) then I would NOT regain the power. Anyway, that's what I intended.... -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:03 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3: Upon taking possession of Monaco, the player who gains control of Monaco can subsequently chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides emself. The power to take this action exists as long as that player holds possession of Monaco, but may only be taken once per possession of Monaco. If another player takes possession of Monaco, and then the original player takes possession of Monaco again, the power is reinstated to the original payer, with the one-time use limitation. o Yea o Nay To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019917 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 14:49:36 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 22:49:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 64932 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 22:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 22:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 22:49:35 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UE9c-0003tC-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:49:34 -0800 To: Subject: Monaco and Her Many Masters Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:47:54 -0500 Message-ID: <005f01c2b2b1$009bef10$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030102151359.26343.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Monaco and Her Many Masters proposal has been revised. The changing of pronouns does NOT imply an agreement that the previous proposal was in violation of a rule. It is simply a concession for anyone who voted against the proposal solely because of the pronoun. -- Martin From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 15:09:47 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Jan 2003 23:09:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 70524 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2003 23:09:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2003 23:09:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 23:09:47 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UETA-000124-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:09:46 -0800 To: Subject: Spivak Pronouns Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:08:05 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c2b2b3$d2cf8260$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <005f01c2b2b1$009bef10$f000a8c0@BORGCON> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spivak Pronouns has been revised -- Martin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 02 19:57:06 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 03:57:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 6596 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 03:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 03:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 03:57:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2003 03:57:06 -0000 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:57:05 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Further thoughts on IT'S MY BALL Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030102144822.96758.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1740 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 206.71.121.163 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg > but I'd rather it didn't happen automatically - I hate to keep arguing this one, but the automatic closing of the poll was a different proposal. This one says that it has to be closed by the creator. Maybe you object to the creator being able to close it "at any time." What if it is changed, so that the creator can only close the poll IF all possible voters have voted, and there are no negative votes? > perhaps this could be better achieved by creating a > procedural motion to close a poll early if everyone > has voted in favour of it. The only problem with this is that the procedural motion (as I understand it) would take 10 days to to pass, which would make it difficult to use to close a poll early. Again, this one is not a big deal to me, I just wanted a nice, simple way to quickly pass a unanimous vote. --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Johnston wrote: > > IT'S MY BALL: > > Yes, now it's pointed out I can see that it's unlikely > that this would conflict with people's ability to > change each other's minds. However, I would prefer all > polls to close when they're expected to close, becuase > it's confusing when they don't (yes, I know it was my > fault last time) and it makes the proposals archive > messy, &c. I can see the merit in being able to pass a > rule more speedily than normal in cases of necessity, > but I'd rather it didn't happen automatically - > perhaps this could be better achieved by creating a > procedural motion to close a poll early if everyone > has voted in favour of it. Also, Rachel's point that > the circumstances set out by the rule are unlikely to > be met because of our inactive players remains true. > So I'm still voting against. From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Jan 03 07:34:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 15:34:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 90856 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 15:34:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 15:34:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41213.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.46) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 15:34:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20030103153452.35425.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:34:52 GMT Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:34:52 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Doubt Raised JML 5 A & B To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005201c2b2ab$1db30b20$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Martin wrote: > The word "should" does not imply necessity, and > therefore using > something other than English in a proposal is NOT > breaking a rule. Yes, we had a discussion about this early in the game, and I remember that one or two players thought I was being excessively pedantic in requesting that people use 'shall' in stead of 'should' in their proposals. However, I don't think this defence is a very strong one. It is abundantly clear that the intention of the rule is to forbid the creation of polls in languages other than English. The rule was created in reaction to a poll which was presented in what would have been English were it not for the fact that the breaks between the words were deliberately misplaced. The fact that all the players voted in favour of the rule demonstrates that the will of all the players is that the presentation of polls in anything other than English be forbidden. In cases in which the wording of a rule is unclear or arguable, it is conventional in this game to consider the intention of the rule. This convention of interpretation is established by precedent, and to reverse that precedent would be detrimental to the game. Having said all this, there is currently no established procedure for determining whether the doubts raised are reasonable (as Martin presumably argues) or not (as I would argue), so I suggest that for the time being we should agree that no action is taken, and when the relevant procedures are in place, I'll raise the issue again. Does anyone have any feedback at all about my draft proposals, or shall I just propose them? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Jan 03 07:37:29 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 15:37:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 76643 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 15:37:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 15:37:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41214.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 15:37:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20030103153728.32186.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41214.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:37:28 GMT Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:37:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Monaco legislative programme To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005c01c2b2af$ca9e7b40$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello, The new version of The Taking Of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 sounds fine to me. Thanks for explaining. I'll vote for that. Likewise thanks for changing the other two proposals, which I'll also vote for (I think - I'd better not promise until I've actually read the new versions!). Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Jan 03 07:47:49 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 15:47:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 85747 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 15:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 15:47:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41215.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 15:47:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20030103154747.24755.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41215.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:47:47 GMT Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:47:47 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: IT'S MY BALL (also procedural motions) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello again, Okay, I'll drop my other objections to this proposal - it will make life a little more complicated for me, but it's probably worthwhile in the interests of being able to close a unanimous poll early. However, I'm still of the opinion that it's not a very useful rule to have when one player is not only inactive but utterly incapable of voting on anything, as he has no yahoo profile and therefore can't access the site. Perhaps it would be beneficial to remove him first. Also, on a side-note: > The only problem with this is that the procedural > motion (as I > understand it) would take 10 days to to pass, which > would make it > difficult to use to close a poll early. Well, at the moment the time-limit, voting procedures &c. for procedural motions are not defined in the rules. Darth Vader specifies the time-limit for 'proposals': in my view this does not cover procedural motions. However, I think it can be assumed that procedural motions work in the same way as other proposals unless specified otherwise. There is nothing, though, to stop us from specifying otherwise. For instance, my draft proposal On Reasonable Doubt II proposes to create a particular type of procedural motion with a particular set of rules governing its use. This can be done with any other procedural motion which might be introduced. So a rule could be passed creating a type of procedural motion which would close in two days and pass on simple majority, or one which would close in 30 days and require unanimous votes 'against' in order to pass. So there we are. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Jan 03 07:58:55 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 15:58:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 25007 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 15:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 15:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41213.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.46) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 15:58:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20030103155854.39621.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:58:54 GMT Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 15:58:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Spivak Pronouns To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030103154747.24755.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello, Okay, I've just read this amended proposal. Um. What is it intended to achieve? If the idea is that it will pass and liberate Monaco by having the word 'cat' in it, I'm not sure this will work: depending on the order in which the polls close it might pass before the others, in which case it would have no effect and would leave us with a rather pointless rule. We already have two of those (the ones I put through on technicalities, and which I would be quite content to see revoked), and we don't need any more. I might be more inclined to vote for it if the title were less misleading. But probably not very much more. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From punkbass_2000@y... Fri Jan 03 09:39:22 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 17:39:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 96527 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 17:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 17:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40110.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.44) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 17:39:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20030103173921.29988.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 09:39:21 PST Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:39:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005c01c2b2af$ca9e7b40$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I'm voting against. I like the idea of it and have no problem with the wording, it's just that Monaco has already been assigned and thus the passing of this rule could prove quite detrimental to myself. If it were proposed with a region that is not owned, I would certainly vote in favour. --- Martin Lyle wrote: > It was late. I was tired. The intention was this: > > When a person takes control of Monaco (and this > wouldn't include the > first owner, since that person will take possession > before this rule > would be in effect), they get the Power (which I > think is clear in it's > description). That person can use this power at any > point starting from > that moment, until they lose possession, but they > can only use it once. > It should definitely be re-worded. Maybe something > more like this: > > At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco, > that player > receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco > allows the player to > chose any one country that is possessed by any > player and immediately > award possession of that country to any other player > besides him or > herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco > exists until either a) > another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the > instant after the > player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes > first. > > Is this clear and logically correct to mean that > every time someone > gains possession, they get the ability to use the > power once? And the > power is not reinstated for that person unless > Monaco is actually > possessed by someone else first. In other words, if > I get Monaco, I get > the ability to use the power. If I use it, I'm done. > Another rule that > I've proposed specifies that under certain > conditions, Monaco is > liberated from whoever possesses it and then awarded > to someone (maybe a > different person, maybe the same person). If I had > had Monaco before > this event and had used the Power, then Monaco was > liberated and awarded > to me (without going to someone else in the interim) > then I would NOT > regain the power. > > Anyway, that's what I intended.... > > -- Martin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:03 AM > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created > for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3: Upon > taking possession of Monaco, the player > who gains control of Monaco can > subsequently chose any one country that > is possessed by any player and > immediately award possession of that > country to any other player besides > emself. The power to take this action > exists as long as that player holds > possession of Monaco, but may only be > taken once per possession of Monaco. If > another player takes possession of > Monaco, and then the original player > takes possession of Monaco again, the > power is reinstated to the original > payer, with the one-time use limitation. > > o Yea > o Nay > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019917 > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll > votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the > Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Jan 03 12:58:19 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 20:58:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 84670 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 20:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 20:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41205.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 20:58:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20030103205819.97719.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.103.123] by web41205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:58:19 GMT Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:58:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030103173921.29988.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Jeff wrote: > it's just that Monaco has > already been assigned and thus the passing of this > rule could prove quite detrimental to myself. Actually Monaco hasn't yet been assigned, and we don't know who's going to get it. In fact it will probably be at least a week and a half before we know, because this guy Russel who's a player but doesn't have a yahoo profile is unlikely to bother telling us his age, and if we don't know the age of every player we can't hand out the countries. So before we do we'll probably have to expel him from the game, which will take at least ten days. Unless we amend 'On The Expulsion Of Players' to make the procedural motion pass quicker, but it would take ten days to put that amendment through... At any rate, we're very unlikely to know who gets Monaco until after The Taking Of Monaco passes, if it does. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 14:38:54 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 90489 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 22:38:54 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UaSh-0000u3-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:38:45 -0800 To: Subject: Doubt Raised JML 5 A & B -- and some thoughts Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:36:51 -0500 Message-ID: <008701c2b378$a2ee9f70$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030103153452.35425.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frankly, I don't care a whole lot about whether I broke the rule or not in this case, so don't think I'm arguing anything out of defensiveness. I just thought I'd test the whole system, which I guess we agree needs some work. Also, I wonder about Rule 20 and the awarding of countries. This is how it looks to me: If I'm next on the list to be awarded a country, and I break a rule and have the whole process invoked, then the country is awarded to the person on the list after me, correct (because it will not be awarded to the rule breaker)? Then, as I understand it, the next rule breaking results in the next country being awarded to the next person on the list. So, breaking a rule is a pretty major penalty. It skips you in the cycle, so you would have to wait until a bunch or rules are broken before your chance comes up again. This is fine with me, I just wondered if that's how everyone understood it. Dropping the whole thing in this case is fine with me, too. The next doubt that I would try to raise would be difficult to argue. It would be along the lines of: Having a single, or even a few, non English words in a bit of text does not mean that the text is not in English. Put in the most simple way; I think that it would be pretty universally recognized by any observer that the proposal was in English, especially since there is no definition of "English" explicitly saying that a text which includes some words not found in an English dictionary places the text outside of the set of all texts which are "in the English language." -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:35 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Doubt Raised JML 5 A & B Martin wrote: > The word "should" does not imply necessity, and > therefore using > something other than English in a proposal is NOT > breaking a rule. Yes, we had a discussion about this early in the game, and I remember that one or two players thought I was being excessively pedantic in requesting that people use 'shall' in stead of 'should' in their proposals. However, I don't think this defence is a very strong one. It is abundantly clear that the intention of the rule is to forbid the creation of polls in languages other than English. The rule was created in reaction to a poll which was presented in what would have been English were it not for the fact that the breaks between the words were deliberately misplaced. The fact that all the players voted in favour of the rule demonstrates that the will of all the players is that the presentation of polls in anything other than English be forbidden. In cases in which the wording of a rule is unclear or arguable, it is conventional in this game to consider the intention of the rule. This convention of interpretation is established by precedent, and to reverse that precedent would be detrimental to the game. Having said all this, there is currently no established procedure for determining whether the doubts raised are reasonable (as Martin presumably argues) or not (as I would argue), so I suggest that for the time being we should agree that no action is taken, and when the relevant procedures are in place, I'll raise the issue again. Does anyone have any feedback at all about my draft proposals, or shall I just propose them? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 14:47:42 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 22:47:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 96221 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 22:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 22:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 22:47:42 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UabJ-0005Eo-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:47:39 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: IT'S MY BALL (also procedural motions) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:45:49 -0500 Message-ID: <008c01c2b379$e1338560$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030103154747.24755.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think creating specific types and provisions for Procedural Motions is great. That's really all I was trying to do by creating the Motions proposal a while ago. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:48 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Re: IT'S MY BALL (also procedural motions) Hello again, Okay, I'll drop my other objections to this proposal - it will make life a little more complicated for me, but it's probably worthwhile in the interests of being able to close a unanimous poll early. However, I'm still of the opinion that it's not a very useful rule to have when one player is not only inactive but utterly incapable of voting on anything, as he has no yahoo profile and therefore can't access the site. Perhaps it would be beneficial to remove him first. Also, on a side-note: > The only problem with this is that the procedural > motion (as I > understand it) would take 10 days to to pass, which > would make it > difficult to use to close a poll early. Well, at the moment the time-limit, voting procedures &c. for procedural motions are not defined in the rules. Darth Vader specifies the time-limit for 'proposals': in my view this does not cover procedural motions. However, I think it can be assumed that procedural motions work in the same way as other proposals unless specified otherwise. There is nothing, though, to stop us from specifying otherwise. For instance, my draft proposal On Reasonable Doubt II proposes to create a particular type of procedural motion with a particular set of rules governing its use. This can be done with any other procedural motion which might be introduced. So a rule could be passed creating a type of procedural motion which would close in two days and pass on simple majority, or one which would close in 30 days and require unanimous votes 'against' in order to pass. So there we are. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 14:52:47 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 22:52:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 16926 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 22:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 22:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 22:52:46 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UagF-0004Bs-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:52:45 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Spivak Pronouns Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:50:55 -0500 Message-ID: <009101c2b37a$97bc3070$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030103155854.39621.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I just wanted to abandon the whole pronoun thing. Those things actually drive me crazy, but I thought I'd see what others thought. I'm glad it didn't do well. Then, when I decided it wouldn't pass, I wondered what it would be like to revise a proposal to be something completely different (and basically useless). -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:59 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Spivak Pronouns Hello, Okay, I've just read this amended proposal. Um. What is it intended to achieve? If the idea is that it will pass and liberate Monaco by having the word 'cat' in it, I'm not sure this will work: depending on the order in which the polls close it might pass before the others, in which case it would have no effect and would leave us with a rather pointless rule. We already have two of those (the ones I put through on technicalities, and which I would be quite content to see revoked), and we don't need any more. I might be more inclined to vote for it if the title were less misleading. But probably not very much more. :) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 15:03:32 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 23:03:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 90729 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 23:03:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 23:03:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 23:03:32 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Uaqf-0002p2-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:03:31 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Monaco legislative programme Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:01:43 -0500 Message-ID: <009601c2b37c$18cdeae0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030103153728.32186.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 has been officially revised. Vote again please. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:37 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Monaco legislative programme Hello, The new version of The Taking Of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 sounds fine to me. Thanks for explaining. I'll vote for that. Likewise thanks for changing the other two proposals, which I'll also vote for (I think - I'd better not promise until I've actually read the new versions!). Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 15:03:40 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 23:03:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 43317 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Uaqm-0002p2-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:03:38 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:01:43 -0500 Message-ID: <009701c2b37c$1ce7b8e0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030103173921.29988.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Okay, well, it was pointed out that Monaco has no value in the game whatsoever. This Rule would actually give it a purpose. And as Jamie points out, Monaco is not yet owned. Therefore, the first person to get it will get the Power, apparently. After that, and in conjunction with the other Monaco rule, everyone is equally susceptible to the vagaries of Monaco, so we will have to be nice to each other. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kolnick [mailto:punkbass_2000@y...]=20 Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 12:39 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 I'm voting against. I like the idea of it and have no problem with the wording, it's just that Monaco has already been assigned and thus the passing of this rule could prove quite detrimental to myself. If it were proposed with a region that is not owned, I would certainly vote in favour. --- Martin Lyle wrote: > It was late. I was tired. The intention was this: >=20 > When a person takes control of Monaco (and this > wouldn't include the > first owner, since that person will take possession > before this rule > would be in effect), they get the Power (which I > think is clear in it's > description). That person can use this power at any > point starting from > that moment, until they lose possession, but they > can only use it once. > It should definitely be re-worded. Maybe something > more like this: >=20 > At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco, > that player > receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco > allows the player to > chose any one country that is possessed by any > player and immediately > award possession of that country to any other player > besides him or > herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco > exists until either a) > another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the > instant after the > player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes > first. >=20 > Is this clear and logically correct to mean that > every time someone > gains possession, they get the ability to use the > power once? And the > power is not reinstated for that person unless > Monaco is actually > possessed by someone else first. In other words, if > I get Monaco, I get > the ability to use the power. If I use it, I'm done. > Another rule that > I've proposed specifies that under certain > conditions, Monaco is > liberated from whoever possesses it and then awarded > to someone (maybe a > different person, maybe the same person). If I had > had Monaco before > this event and had used the Power, then Monaco was > liberated and awarded > to me (without going to someone else in the interim) > then I would NOT > regain the power. >=20 > Anyway, that's what I intended.... >=20 > -- Martin >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:03 AM > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic >=20 >=20 >=20 > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created > for the=20 > Pure_Nomic group: >=20 > The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3: Upon=20 > taking possession of Monaco, the player=20 > who gains control of Monaco can=20 > subsequently chose any one country that=20 > is possessed by any player and=20 > immediately award possession of that=20 > country to any other player besides=20 > emself. The power to take this action=20 > exists as long as that player holds=20 > possession of Monaco, but may only be=20 > taken once per possession of Monaco. If=20 > another player takes possession of=20 > Monaco, and then the original player=20 > takes possession of Monaco again, the=20 > power is reinstated to the original=20 > payer, with the one-time use limitation.=20 >=20 > o Yea=20 > o Nay=20 >=20 >=20 > To vote, please visit the following web page: >=20 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=3D1019917 >=20=20 >=20 > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll > votes are=20 > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the > Yahoo! Groups=20 > web site listed above. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ----------------------------------=20 >=20 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service.=20 >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold."=A0-Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ----------------------------------=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 15:08:37 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 23:08:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 9766 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 23:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 23:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 23:08:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2003 23:08:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 23:08:34 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Danger of more rules being broken Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030102152922.57320.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2225 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 206.71.121.163 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg > Martin, you've created three polls on the 2nd and set > them to close on the 13th, which is the *eleventh* day I've been careful about this and making sure I update the date to 10 days after a revision. Apparently the date is not updated on the poll page when a poll is edited. If you look at "It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home," it was created on 12/20/2002 (20/12/2002, 20021220) but the ending date is currently 1/13/2003, because I edited it early this morning. I think my dates are all correct. We should make a new rule, of course, to specify that a poll includes the date of the latest revision as part of it's text. --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Johnston wrote: > Hello again. > > I've just noticed, Martin's in danger of breaking rule > 2: Darth Vader. The rules says 'The poll on each > proposal shall close on the tenth day after its > creation; except that if the proposal is amended > before this time the poll shall close on the tenth day > after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this > time shall be considered passed'. > > Martin, you've created three polls on the 2nd and set > them to close on the 13th, which is the *eleventh* day > after the 2nd. I'm normally rather shaky on the > difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers, but > I'm fairly certain about this one. Also, I suspect > your amendment of the Pork-Barrel and One Vote polls > occurred on the 2nd, and ought therefore to close on > the 12th rather than the 13th. > > Now, Darth Vader is a bit unclear on this. It says > when the polls shall close, but it doesn't say that > they have to be *set* to close on the tenth day, so I > don't think the rule has actually been broken yet, but > it will be if they don't close on the tenth day. So to > avoid this you'll need to close them on the 12th, or > re-set them now to close automatically on that day. > > I shall propose an amendment to make the wording of > Darth Vader clearer. > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 03 15:20:57 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 3 Jan 2003 23:20:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 42059 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2003 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2003 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2003 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Ub7U-0001LZ-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:20:54 -0800 To: Subject: The disembodied player Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:19:00 -0500 Message-ID: <009801c2b37e$862702f0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <009701c2b37c$1ce7b8e0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg As the rules currently exist, I think we can get away with booting the non-player with a poll for a Procedural Motion with any time limit we choose, since there is nothing specifying a time limit for Procedural Motions. There is a 10 day time frame for the "poll on each proposal", but I interpret a "poll for a proposal" to be a proposal for a Rule (that's how I have always used it). I see it as a proposal to make something a Rule. But a Procedural Motion is NOT a proposal. It is a Procedural Motion. It already has substance, while the proposed Rule does not. -- Martin From punkbass_2000@y... Fri Jan 03 18:06:14 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 4 Jan 2003 02:06:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 73703 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2003 02:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2003 02:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40109.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.43) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2003 02:06:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20030104020613.5017.qmail@w...> Received: from [24.112.173.197] by web40109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:06:13 PST Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:06:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030103205819.97719.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jeff Kolnick X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 In any case, I am certainly not going to be getting Monaco. --- Jamie Johnston wrote: > Jeff wrote: > > > it's just that Monaco has > > already been assigned and thus the passing of this > > rule could prove quite detrimental to myself. > > Actually Monaco hasn't yet been assigned, and we > don't > know who's going to get it. > > In fact it will probably be at least a week and a > half > before we know, because this guy Russel who's a > player > but doesn't have a yahoo profile is unlikely to > bother > telling us his age, and if we don't know the age of > every player we can't hand out the countries. So > before we do we'll probably have to expel him from > the > game, which will take at least ten days. Unless we > amend 'On The Expulsion Of Players' to make the > procedural motion pass quicker, but it would take > ten > days to put that amendment through... > > At any rate, we're very unlikely to know who gets > Monaco until after The Taking Of Monaco passes, if > it > does. > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Jan 05 07:21:14 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Jan 2003 15:21:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 53546 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 15:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 15:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41204.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 15:21:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20030105152113.30178.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.98.25] by web41204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 15:21:13 GMT Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:21:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Replies to everything To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <008701c2b378$a2ee9f70$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, Thought I'd respond to everything in one message, to make it easier. The Broken(?) Rules: The system seems to work all right, at least as far as we've tested it, so I'll make these proposals into polls. Rule 20: Martin wrote: > If I'm next on the list to be awarded a country, and > I break a rule and > have the whole process invoked, then the country is > awarded to the > person on the list after me, correct (because it > will not be awarded to > the rule breaker)? Then, as I understand it, the > next rule breaking > results in the next country being awarded to the > next person on the > list. So, breaking a rule is a pretty major penalty. > It skips you in the > cycle, so you would have to wait until a bunch or > rules are broken > before your chance comes up again. Hmm. Yes, it does look like that. I hadn't thought of that. Well, if anyone wants to propose an amendment, that's fine, but until then I think I agree with your interpretation. Changing proposals beyond recognition: I think probably what happens when one changes a poll to something completely different is that I object to the title being unhelpful. There is something we have in Oxford Student Union called 'spirit of the motion', where if someone proposes an amendment the chairman can decide that it's not 'in the spirit of the motion' and therefore can't be put. We could if we wanted have something like that, but the problem is there would have to be somebody to make that decision, so it's probably easiest to leave it as it is. Taking Of Monaco: I've voted for the new version, and put it in the archive. Dates of proposals: If we pass the rule to make everyone notify the list when they change a poll, then we don't really need to have another rule saying they have to put the date of the change into the wording of the poll. The date they change it will be that same as the date they send the notification message. Martin, could you check the proposals archive Vol II to make sure I've put the correct dates for your amendments to proposals? Procedural Motion to expel 'Russel': Yes, it would be within the rules for this procedural motion to have any closing date, but perhaps to be sure we ought to amend 'On The Expulsion Of Players' to specify the details fo the motion needed. I'll propose the amendment. But we can kick him out before it passes, if we want. Jeff not going to get Monaco: Perhaps the only way to deal with this and still create the Power Of Monaco is to amend The Taking Of Monaco (again!) to say that the first person who gets Monaco doesn't get the power. That way it doesn't disadvantage anyone in particular. That's all, folks. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 05 07:26:15 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98170 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 15:26:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 15:26:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 15:26:15 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.156] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2003 15:26:15 -0000 Date: 5 Jan 2003 15:26:13 -0000 Message-ID: <1041780373.826.84137.w35@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Reasonable Doubt I: Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e- mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1021176 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 05 07:36:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97474 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 15:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 15:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.90) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 15:36:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2003 15:36:50 -0000 Date: 5 Jan 2003 15:36:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1041781010.423.81220.w30@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Proposal to amend Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players to read: 'A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes.' o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1021177 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Jan 05 07:41:49 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Jan 2003 15:41:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 82698 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 15:41:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 15:41:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41215.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 15:41:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20030105154148.63305.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.154.98.25] by web41215.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 15:41:48 GMT Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:41:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Proposal amended To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030105152113.30178.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston The proposal to amend Rule 9 has been amended. It now reads as follows. "Proposal to amend Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players to read: 'A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion.'" Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 05 10:41:51 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82990 invoked by uid 7800); 5 Jan 2003 18:41:51 -0000 Date: 5 Jan 2003 18:41:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1041792111.37610412.65789.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and date is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of MMDDYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. [Last updated 31st December 2002] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From wandrer@w... Sun Jan 05 11:47:34 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Jan 2003 19:47:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 98050 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 19:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 19:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.24) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 19:47:32 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030105194728.KFVQ13007.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:47:28 +0100 Message-ID: <005b01c2b4f3$b0fb3160$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <1041780373.826.84137.w35@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:50:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I'm trying to catch up, having been engaged in my little movie-making project for the past few months. I'm wondering about several points in this rule: 1) How does this deal with two DIFFERENT people sending the same doubt at roughly the same day? That would result in multiple messages with the same subject line, without the A, B, ..., resulting in the breaking of another rule! 2) How can I know the initials of a player? Until these are known, no-one can raise a doubt. Yours, Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: A Christmas Carol In Bricks http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/lego/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > On Reasonable Doubt I: > Any player may at any time formally > point out a suspected rule infringment > by sending a message to the > Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list > stating which rule seems to have been > broken and in what way and by which > player it seems to have been broken. > The subject line of the message must > contain, in this order, the > phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of > the player suspected and the number of > the rule apparently broken. (Such a > message may deal with only one case of > suspect rule infringment by only one > player. Where more than one player is > suspected, or where more than one > infringment is suspected, multiple > messages may be sent. If multiple > messages to be sent would have the > same subject line, a letter A should be > added to the end of the subject line of > the first, B to that of the second, and > so on.) Any player may then formally > raise doubt about the validity of the > suspicion by sending a message to the e- > mail list with the same subject line > as the original message, except that > the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be > replaced with the phrase 'Doubt > Raised'. The message should set out the > grounds on which the suspicion is to be > doubted. If on the tenth day after the > original 'Rule Broken' message appeared > on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- > mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages > have appeared, it will be considered > for the purposes of Rule 20: On The > Breaking Of Rules to have been > established beyond reasonable doubt > that the suspected player has broken > a rule. > > o For > o Against > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1021176 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From wandrer@w... Sun Jan 05 12:22:17 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Jan 2003 20:22:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 70731 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 20:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 20:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.22) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 20:22:15 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030105202211.WXOR3670.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:22:11 +0100 Message-ID: <008a01c2b4f8$8a3f79a0$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <1041496203.247.28032.w46@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:25:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan I voted against this one, because of the 'any time' phrase. It's impossible to check this: the player currently in possession of Monaco can quickly change his vote and deny that this situation happened. Change it to 'if after the poll has closed, there are more than 5 votes in favour, and exactly two against, ...' and I will ok it! Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: A Christmas Carol In Bricks http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/lego/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > Monaco and Eir Many Masters: Whenever a > Rule is passed which includes the name > of an animal anywhere in the text or > Name of the Rule (and which has not > been mentioned in any other Rule), > Monaco immediately becomes un- > possessed. Also, any time that there > are more than 5 votes for a Proposal to > become a Rule, AND EXACTLY 2 of the > votes are negative (whether the > Proposal passes or not), Monaco > immediately becomes un-possessed. In > both cases, Posession of Monaco is then > immediately transferred to the person > who made the most recent proposal which > was passed and entered into the List of > Rules. > > o Oh YEAH! > o Um, no. > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019925 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From wandrer@w... Sun Jan 05 12:37:57 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Jan 2003 20:37:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 9326 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2003 20:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2003 20:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.24) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2003 20:37:55 -0000 Received: from vanZwam ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030105203751.LOES13007.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@vanZwam> for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:37:51 +0100 Message-ID: <00ad01c2b4fa$baa081a0$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <1041521530.195.82319.w61@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:40:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan "close close"? What's that supposed to mean? --- New film by YellowHead Studios: A Christmas Carol In Bricks http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/lego/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > Proposal to amend Rule 2: Darth Vader > to read: > 'The poll on each proposal shall be set > by its creator at the time of its > creation to close on the tenth day > after its creation; > except that if the proposal is amended > before this time the poll shall be set > by its amender at the time of its > amendment to close close on > the tenth day after the amendment. No > proposal withdrawn before this time > shall > be considered passed.' > > o For > o Against > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1020022 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From zenomic@m... Sun Jan 05 23:21:41 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 07:21:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 58109 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 07:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 07:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 07:21:40 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VRZl-0001Xa-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:21:35 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:19:45 -0500 Message-ID: <00d301c2b554$03d7f480$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <005b01c2b4f3$b0fb3160$44642ed5@a...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to agree that there seems to be a potential and somewhat likely problem with the subjects getting duplicated. Nonetheless, I'm voting for it. I don't mind having broken rules that lead to more complicated situations myself. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 2:50 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic I'm trying to catch up, having been engaged in my little movie-making project for the past few months. I'm wondering about several points in this rule: 1) How does this deal with two DIFFERENT people sending the same doubt at roughly the same day? That would result in multiple messages with the same subject line, without the A, B, ..., resulting in the breaking of another rule! 2) How can I know the initials of a player? Until these are known, no-one can raise a doubt. Yours, Stefan. --- New film by YellowHead Studios: A Christmas Carol In Bricks http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/lego/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Pure_Nomic group: > > On Reasonable Doubt I: > Any player may at any time formally > point out a suspected rule infringment > by sending a message to the > Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list > stating which rule seems to have been > broken and in what way and by which > player it seems to have been broken. > The subject line of the message must > contain, in this order, the > phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of > the player suspected and the number of > the rule apparently broken. (Such a > message may deal with only one case of > suspect rule infringment by only one > player. Where more than one player is > suspected, or where more than one > infringment is suspected, multiple > messages may be sent. If multiple > messages to be sent would have the > same subject line, a letter A should be > added to the end of the subject line of > the first, B to that of the second, and > so on.) Any player may then formally > raise doubt about the validity of the > suspicion by sending a message to the e- > mail list with the same subject line > as the original message, except that > the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be > replaced with the phrase 'Doubt > Raised'. The message should set out the > grounds on which the suspicion is to be > doubted. If on the tenth day after the > original 'Rule Broken' message appeared > on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- > mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages > have appeared, it will be considered > for the purposes of Rule 20: On The > Breaking Of Rules to have been > established beyond reasonable doubt > that the suspected player has broken > a rule. > > o For > o Against > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1021176 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From zenomic@m... Sun Jan 05 23:32:01 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 07:32:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 58704 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 07:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 07:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 07:32:00 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VRjo-0000eN-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:31:58 -0800 To: Subject: Monaco and Her Many Masters - revised Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 02:30:09 -0500 Message-ID: <00d801c2b555$7719c3a0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <005b01c2b4f3$b0fb3160$44642ed5@a...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Modified at 2:25am on 060103 and set to conclude on 160103. Monaco and Her Many Masters: Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of an animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019925 From zenomic@m... Mon Jan 06 00:08:42 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 08:08:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 41905 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 08:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 08:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 08:08:42 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VSJK-0007Sg-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 00:08:40 -0800 To: Subject: It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home - reviseed Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:06:51 -0500 Message-ID: <00e101c2b55a$9639ce10$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030105152113.30178.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Revised on 060103 and set to conclude on 160103. It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home: If every potential voter has voted for a poll, and there are no votes against the poll, then the poll creator can conclude the poll before the standard time limit has passed. Thee poll is considered passed and will be entered into the list of rules. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1016445 From zenomic@m... Mon Jan 06 00:14:08 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 08:14:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 34369 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 08:14:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 08:14:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 08:14:08 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VSOa-0002d3-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 00:14:06 -0800 To: Subject: Spivak Pronouns - reevised Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:12:13 -0500 Message-ID: <00e201c2b55b$586dd6c0$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030105152113.30178.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Revised on 060103 and set to conclude on 160103 Spivak Pronouns: Spivak pronouns will not be used. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019916 From zenomic@m... Mon Jan 06 00:15:30 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 08:15:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 50716 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 08:15:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 08:15:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 08:15:30 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18VSPv-0003OH-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 00:15:29 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Replies to everything Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:13:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00e701c2b55b$8973e340$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030105152113.30178.qmail@w...> From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg >Martin, could you check the proposals archive Vol II >to make sure I've put the correct dates for your >amendments to proposals? The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 was actually last revised on 030103. You have it as 040103. And of course, all of thee revisions that I just sent out need to bee updated. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:21 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Replies to everything Hi all, Thought I'd respond to everything in one message, to make it easier. The Broken(?) Rules: The system seems to work all right, at least as far as we've tested it, so I'll make these proposals into polls. Rule 20: Martin wrote: > If I'm next on the list to be awarded a country, and > I break a rule and > have the whole process invoked, then the country is > awarded to the > person on the list after me, correct (because it > will not be awarded to > the rule breaker)? Then, as I understand it, the > next rule breaking > results in the next country being awarded to the > next person on the > list. So, breaking a rule is a pretty major penalty. > It skips you in the > cycle, so you would have to wait until a bunch or > rules are broken > before your chance comes up again. Hmm. Yes, it does look like that. I hadn't thought of that. Well, if anyone wants to propose an amendment, that's fine, but until then I think I agree with your interpretation. Changing proposals beyond recognition: I think probably what happens when one changes a poll to something completely different is that I object to the title being unhelpful. There is something we have in Oxford Student Union called 'spirit of the motion', where if someone proposes an amendment the chairman can decide that it's not 'in the spirit of the motion' and therefore can't be put. We could if we wanted have something like that, but the problem is there would have to be somebody to make that decision, so it's probably easiest to leave it as it is. Taking Of Monaco: I've voted for the new version, and put it in the archive. Dates of proposals: If we pass the rule to make everyone notify the list when they change a poll, then we don't really need to have another rule saying they have to put the date of the change into the wording of the poll. The date they change it will be that same as the date they send the notification message. Martin, could you check the proposals archive Vol II to make sure I've put the correct dates for your amendments to proposals? Procedural Motion to expel 'Russel': Yes, it would be within the rules for this procedural motion to have any closing date, but perhaps to be sure we ought to amend 'On The Expulsion Of Players' to specify the details fo the motion needed. I'll propose the amendment. But we can kick him out before it passes, if we want. Jeff not going to get Monaco: Perhaps the only way to deal with this and still create the Power Of Monaco is to amend The Taking Of Monaco (again!) to say that the first person who gets Monaco doesn't get the power. That way it doesn't disadvantage anyone in particular. That's all, folks. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Jan 06 04:30:39 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 12:30:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 97746 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 12:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 12:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41204.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 12:30:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20030106123037.82783.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.139.121.23] by web41204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:30:37 GMT Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:30:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Replies to everything again To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005b01c2b4f3$b0fb3160$44642ed5@a...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, REASONABLE DOUBT I: Stefan wrote: > I'm wondering about several points in this rule: > 1) How does this deal with two DIFFERENT people > sending the same doubt at > roughly the same day? That would result in multiple > messages with the same > subject line, without the A, B, ..., resulting in > the breaking of another > rule! Early on, the text of the proposal says that 'any player' may formally point out a broken rule by sending a message &c. &c., so I think it would be reasonable to consider that when it says 'multiple messages may be sent' it means '... by that player', and when it says the letter A or B or whatever should be added it also means 'by that player'. So I'd suggest that if two different players produced ones with the same subject-line, the rule wouldn;t be broken. Although it would be easier if they didn't. > 2) How can I know the initials of a player? Until > these are known, no-one > can raise a doubt. It doesn't have to be the full initials, just as many as you know. The names of (almost) all players are in the official list of players, so you can figure out the initials from that. AMENDMENT TO DARTH VADER: Stefan wrote: > "close close"? > > What's that supposed to mean? Good point. My mistake, I'll correct it now. MONACO AND HER MANY MASTERS: I hate to ask for yet another amendment, but there's now a sentence that reads, "Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated")". The important part is "after the passing of the poll" - if there are two votes against the poll, then it will probably have failed (unless it's a particular type of procedural motion), and will therefore not 'pass' - so there will be no 'passing of the poll'. Perhaps 'closing of the poll' would be better. IT'S MY BALL: Well, the new version with 'potential voter' in stead of 'player' is a bit vague: one could argue that any player is a potential voter, because even the one without the yahoo profile could get a yahoo profile and then vote. In fact anyone could join the game and then vote, so even non-players are potential voters. I think it was better with 'players'. Why don't we just let this proposal lie until we've got rid of this Russel guy, and then it will be straight-forward? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Jan 06 04:34:40 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 12:34:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 75977 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 12:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 12:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41202.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 12:34:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20030106123439.12863.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.139.121.23] by web41202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:34:39 GMT Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:34:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Proposal amended To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030105154148.63305.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston The proposal to amend rule 2 has been amended. It now reads as follows. "Proposal to amend Rule 2: Darth Vader to read: 'The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed.'" Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Mon Jan 06 07:12:55 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 15:12:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 23358 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 15:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 15:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 15:12:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2003 15:12:44 -0000 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:12:41 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Replies to everything again Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030106123037.82783.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3617 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 209.214.213.194 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg > EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the > passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes > un-possessed (or "liberated")". The important part is > "after the passing of the poll" - if there are two > votes against the poll, then it will probably have > failed (unless it's a particular type of procedural > motion), and will therefore not 'pass' - so there will > be no 'passing of the poll'. Perhaps 'closing of the > poll' would be better. This doesn't say that the poll must pass. The phrase is "against the passing of the poll" which exists to define what a "negative" vote is. The whole concept was specifically meant to include votes that don't pass (although, as you mention, in the future, a poll with two negative votes might "pass"). -martin --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Johnston wrote: > Hi all, > > REASONABLE DOUBT I: > > Stefan wrote: > > I'm wondering about several points in this rule: > > 1) How does this deal with two DIFFERENT people > > sending the same doubt at > > roughly the same day? That would result in multiple > > messages with the same > > subject line, without the A, B, ..., resulting in > > the breaking of another > > rule! > > Early on, the text of the proposal says that 'any > player' may formally point out a broken rule by > sending a message &c. &c., so I think it would be > reasonable to consider that when it says 'multiple > messages may be sent' it means '... by that player', > and when it says the letter A or B or whatever should > be added it also means 'by that player'. So I'd > suggest that if two different players produced ones > with the same subject-line, the rule wouldn;t be > broken. Although it would be easier if they didn't. > > > 2) How can I know the initials of a player? Until > > these are known, no-one > > can raise a doubt. > > It doesn't have to be the full initials, just as many > as you know. The names of (almost) all players are in > the official list of players, so you can figure out > the initials from that. > > AMENDMENT TO DARTH VADER: > > Stefan wrote: > > "close close"? > > > > What's that supposed to mean? > > Good point. My mistake, I'll correct it now. > > MONACO AND HER MANY MASTERS: > > I hate to ask for yet another amendment, but there's > now a sentence that reads, "Also, after any poll has > closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND > EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the > passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes > un-possessed (or "liberated")". The important part is > "after the passing of the poll" - if there are two > votes against the poll, then it will probably have > failed (unless it's a particular type of procedural > motion), and will therefore not 'pass' - so there will > be no 'passing of the poll'. Perhaps 'closing of the > poll' would be better. > > IT'S MY BALL: > > Well, the new version with 'potential voter' in stead > of 'player' is a bit vague: one could argue that any > player is a potential voter, because even the one > without the yahoo profile could get a yahoo profile > and then vote. In fact anyone could join the game and > then vote, so even non-players are potential voters. I > think it was better with 'players'. Why don't we just > let this proposal lie until we've got rid of this > Russel guy, and then it will be straight-forward? > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Mon Jan 06 07:16:43 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 15:16:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 94897 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 15:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 15:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 15:16:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.135] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2003 15:16:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:16:41 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home - revised Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 403 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 209.214.213.194 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg revised on 060103 and set to expire 160103 It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home: If every currently eligible vote has been cast, and there are no votes against the poll, then the poll creator can conclude the poll before the standard time limit has passed. Thee poll is considered passed and will be entered into the list of rules. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1016445 From zenomic@m... Mon Jan 06 07:22:50 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Jan 2003 15:22:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 39210 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2003 15:22:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2003 15:22:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2003 15:22:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2003 15:21:54 -0000 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:21:53 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 - revised Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 689 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 209.214.213.194 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg revised 060103 and set to expire 160103 The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3: At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (exluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019917 From racheledugdale@y... Wed Jan 08 04:54:49 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 12:54:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 93533 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 12:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 12:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.212) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 12:54:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20030108125448.85921.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.135.163.124] by web10704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:54:48 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:54:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Dishing out countries: Ages Please! To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20021231183007.29441.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale Hi everyone, Sorry to have been not saying anything for a while, but I've been a bit busy with christmas-newyear-birthday celebrations. However, I'm now back. Run away and hide now... > Also, we've just passed Rule 25, so we now need to > know everyone's age. This is so we can establish: > a) who's eldest > b) who's nearest to the mean age of all the players > c) who's nearest to 30 > d) which two players are closest together in age. I'm 20 (just) - born on 6th Jan 1983. Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Wed Jan 08 09:08:59 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 17:08:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 13875 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 17:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 17:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10707.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.215) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 17:08:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20030108170857.69003.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.166.156.148] by web10707.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:08:57 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:08:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Doubt Raised JML 5 A & B -- and some thoughts To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <008701c2b378$a2ee9f70$f000a8c0@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale > If I'm next on the list to be awarded a country, and > I break a rule and > have the whole process invoked, then the country is > awarded to the > person on the list after me, correct (because it > will not be awarded to > the rule breaker)? Then, as I understand it, the > next rule breaking > results in the next country being awarded to the > next person on the > list. So, breaking a rule is a pretty major penalty. > It skips you in the > cycle, so you would have to wait until a bunch or > rules are broken > before your chance comes up again. This is fine with > me, I just wondered > if that's how everyone understood it. Well, yes, that is how it would work if it so happened that you were next on the list at the time when you broke the rule. I think the key is not to break any rules when you're next on the list - wait for someone else to do it first! For example, in these sample cases which have been progressing in my absence, in which you (Martin) were being accused: - Chris Goodwin was the last person to be awarded a country, so Jamie is next on the list, and then Jeff. - Since you are accused of breaking two rules, if these were both decided to be 'beyond reasonable doubt', two countries would be awarded. They would therefore go to Jamie and Jeff, and you would have lost nothing. However, if (in some imaginary parallel universe) you'd been accused of three infringements, you would miss your turn in the cycle, and the third country would go to Russell. In this case you would have lost out - but this will happen only 1/7 of the time, even if it is entirely chance-driven. If you're careful you can be sure that you don't miss out at all. Hope it's clear what I mean! Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From racheledugdale@y... Wed Jan 08 09:15:27 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: racheledugdale@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 17:15:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 70715 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 17:15:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 17:15:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10705.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.213) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 17:15:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20030108171526.38348.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.166.156.148] by web10705.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:15:26 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:15:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20030104020613.5017.qmail@w...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rachel=20Dugdale?= Reply-To: rachel@s... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59856478 X-Yahoo-Profile: racheledugdale Jeff wrote: > In any case, I am certainly not going to be getting > Monaco. It's been a while since I actually read the relevant rule, but am I right in suspecting that Monaco is going to be given to whosoever turns out to be oldest? If so, then you won't be getting it and neither will I. But I don't personally see this as a problem, for one very simple reason. The proposed rule on the Power of Monaco does not allow the possessor of Monaco to give a country to themselves. They have to give it to another player. And as there are only 7 players, that's a 1/6 chance of a new country for you. And (unlike Jamie, Chris & myself) you don't have any countries to be taken away from you, so you stand to lose nothing, and still have a 1/6 chance of gaining. This to me sounds like a pretty good deal! Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Jan 08 12:28:46 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 20:28:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 42169 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 20:28:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 20:28:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41202.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 20:28:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20030108202845.75827.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.183.70.2] by web41202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:28:45 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:28:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home - revised To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello. Quite unrelated to the clause we've been discussing (about 'eligible votes' or whatever), I notice a problem with the last phrase: > Thee poll is considered passed and will be > entered into the > list of rules. This means that any poll concluded in this way, even one for a procedural motion or a rule amendment, would have to be entered into the list of rules. Please rephrase? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Jan 08 12:55:17 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 8 Jan 2003 20:55:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 42386 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2003 20:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2003 20:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41212.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.45) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2003 20:55:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20030108205512.3003.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.183.70.2] by web41212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:55:12 GMT Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:55:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Reasonable Doubt I To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello, Would whoever is voting agains this proposal please explain why they're doing it? I gave everyone plenty of time to raise any objections they had before I created the poll. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Thu Jan 09 04:24:32 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Jan 2003 12:24:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 70404 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 12:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2003 12:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2003 12:24:31 -0000 Received: from hh1121163.direcpc.com ([206.71.121.163] helo=BORGCON) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WbjY-0003M2-00 for Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:24:30 -0800 To: Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home - revised Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 07:24:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c2b7da$073eb9a0$b628fea9@BORGCON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030108202845.75827.qmail@w...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Martin Lyle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg I have grown weary of revising this one. I will let it die. -- Martin -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:29 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home - revised Hello. Quite unrelated to the clause we've been discussing (about 'eligible votes' or whatever), I notice a problem with the last phrase: > Thee poll is considered passed and will be > entered into the > list of rules. This means that any poll concluded in this way, even one for a procedural motion or a rule amendment, would have to be entered into the list of rules. Please rephrase? Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 10 08:08:30 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Jan 2003 16:08:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 97964 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2003 16:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2003 16:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2003 16:08:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2003 16:07:59 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:07:59 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Monaco and Her Many Masters - revised Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 997 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 209.214.213.194 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg I hate to revise it again, but the text really needed to be fixed. It used to be "the name of an animal." Now it is "the name of a type of animal." I didn't want to start arguing about, "I used to know a pigeon named Existentialism." revised on 100103 and set to conclude 200103 Monaco and Her Many Masters: Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019925 From zenomic@m... Fri Jan 10 08:14:19 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Jan 2003 16:14:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 28663 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2003 16:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2003 16:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2003 16:14:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2003 16:14:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:14:14 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 - revised Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 790 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 209.214.213.194 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg I also hate to revise this one, but "excluding" was spelled incorrectly, and it was annoying me. revised 100103 and set to conclude 200103 The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3: At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1019917 From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 12 18:48:53 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11169 invoked by uid 7800); 13 Jan 2003 02:48:53 -0000 Date: 13 Jan 2003 02:48:53 -0000 Message-ID: <1042426133.24.11166.m3@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Notification: Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From wandrer@w... Mon Jan 13 00:08:24 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: S.H.M.v.Zwam@s... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 13 Jan 2003 08:08:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 24937 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2003 08:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2003 08:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.tue.nl) (131.155.2.5) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2003 08:08:23 -0000 Received: from studentex4.student.tue.nl (studentex4.student.tue.nl [131.155.4.29]) by mailhost.tue.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h0D88MJl29126605 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:08:22 +0100 (MET) Received: by studentex4.student.tue.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:08:22 +0100 Message-ID: <9D1F2A264056D4118EEB00508BE3D07902910C35@s...> To: "'Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Reasonable Doubt I Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:08:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-eGroups-From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" From: "Zwam, S.H.M. van" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan That was me. I have already stated my opinions on the matter, and you have taken away my objections. I had just forgotten to change my vote, which has been done now. Stefan. --- NOW PLAYING at YellowHead Studios: A Christmas Carol In Bricks http://www.stack.nl/~stefanvz/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Johnston [mailto:jamiekjohnston@y...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 21:55 > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Reasonable Doubt I > > > Hello, > > Would whoever is voting agains this proposal please > explain why they're doing it? I gave everyone plenty > of time to raise any objections they had before I > created the poll. > > Jamie > > ===== > > > www.strategikon.org > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 13 00:47:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31499 invoked by uid 7800); 13 Jan 2003 08:47:11 -0000 Date: 13 Jan 2003 08:47:11 -0000 Message-ID: <1042447631.21.31498.m15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend 'Rule 16: Pork-Barrel Rule' to read: When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yeah, 3 votes, 100.00% - Nope, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yeah - wandrer@w... - zenomic@m... - jamiekjohnston@y... - Nope For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 13 00:47:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73820 invoked by uid 7800); 13 Jan 2003 08:47:11 -0000 Date: 13 Jan 2003 08:47:11 -0000 Message-ID: <1042447631.22.73819.m4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: The One Vote DOES Count Rule: If a poll closes without any affirmative votes (i.e. all votes are against passing the proposal), AND there are at least two votes, then the proposer of the poll will be awarded the first unowned country from the official list of the countries still available. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Good one., 2 votes, 50.00% - Bad one., 2 votes, 50.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Good one. - zenomic@m... - wandrer@w... - Bad one. - jamiekjohnston@y... - punkbass_2000@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 15 18:42:12 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9382 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Jan 2003 02:42:12 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2003 02:42:12 -0000 Message-ID: <1042684932.159.9379.m5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Reasonable Doubt I: Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e- mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 15 18:42:13 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 94822 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Jan 2003 02:42:10 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2003 02:42:10 -0000 Message-ID: <1042684930.22.94821.m9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players to read: 'A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of a procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion.' CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 4 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 16 15:36:56 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8296 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2003 23:36:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2003 23:36:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2003 23:36:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.66.143] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2003 23:36:55 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2003 23:36:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1042760212.192.89887.w68@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On Reasonable Doubt II: If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule [??]: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule [??]: On Reasonable Doubt and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1025837 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Jan 16 15:43:53 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 16 Jan 2003 23:43:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 47560 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2003 23:43:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2003 23:43:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41208.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2003 23:43:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20030116234353.1861.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.221] by web41208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:43:53 GMT Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:43:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Proposal amended To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1042684930.22.94821.m9@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hello, On 16th Jan 2003 the proposal 'On Reasonable Doubt II' was amended to read: "On Reasonable Doubt II: If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered." (It's the same but with the [??] filled in properly.) Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 16 15:50:00 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21371 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2003 23:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2003 23:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2003 23:49:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.181] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2003 23:49:59 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2003 23:49:58 -0000 Message-ID: <1042760998.189.83715.w58@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: On The Overturning Of Rulings: In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1025838 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 16 18:37:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 49696 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Jan 2003 02:37:25 -0000 Date: 17 Jan 2003 02:37:25 -0000 Message-ID: <1042771045.41.49694.m3@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal to amend Rule 2: Darth Vader to read: 'The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed.' CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Jan 17 00:34:09 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 87413 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Jan 2003 08:34:09 -0000 Date: 17 Jan 2003 08:34:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1042792449.21.87412.m1@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: It's My Ball and I'm Taking it Home: If every currently eligible vote has been cast, and there are no votes against the poll, then the poll creator can conclude the poll before the standard time limit has passed. Thee poll is considered passed and will be entered into the list of rules. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For it, 0 votes, 0.00% - Agin't, 3 votes, 100.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - For it - Agin't - wandrer@w... - jamiekjohnston@y... - zenomic@m... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri Jan 17 00:34:14 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 93881 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Jan 2003 08:34:14 -0000 Date: 17 Jan 2003 08:34:14 -0000 Message-ID: <1042792454.19.93880.m10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Spivak Pronouns: Spivak pronouns will not be used. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Okay, 4 votes, 100.00% - No way, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 19 12:05:03 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 49289 invoked by uid 7800); 19 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0000 Date: 19 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1043006703.42601881.35956.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. [Last updated 17th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Jan 21 00:35:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64940 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jan 2003 08:35:22 -0000 Date: 21 Jan 2003 08:35:22 -0000 Message-ID: <1043138122.25.64939.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3: At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 100.00% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes - wandrer@w... - rachel@s... - zenomic@m... - jamiekjohnston@y... - No For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Jan 21 00:35:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64954 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jan 2003 08:35:22 -0000 Date: 21 Jan 2003 08:35:22 -0000 Message-ID: <1043138122.33.64952.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Monaco and Her Many Masters: Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Oh YEAH!, 4 votes, 100.00% - Um, no., 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Oh YEAH! - wandrer@w... - rachel@s... - zenomic@m... - jamiekjohnston@y... - Um, no. For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From wandrer@w... Tue Jan 21 05:43:40 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Jan 2003 13:43:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 65911 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2003 13:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2003 13:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep11-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.20) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2003 13:43:40 -0000 Received: from s000239 ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep11-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030121134338.BEGR4441.amsfep11-int.chello.nl@s000239> for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:43:38 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c2c153$1ee27880$0200a8c0@s000239> To: Subject: Idea for a Proposal Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:43:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Stefan" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Voyages Extraordinaires" Basic idea: everyone is allowed to select a vehicle out of several types (in the line of the ones used in Jules Verne's books). Each vehicle has certain characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, but all allow you to travel from one country to another in a month. If you arrive in an unpossessed country, it becomes yours. Some ideas about the vehicles: * hot air balloon - The continent the balloon travels to can not be at the same continent as the country the balloon departed from. * Nautilus - This submarine can only travel to countries that have border on a sea or ocean. * Horse - Can only move between adjacent countries. I know this needs some fine-tuning, starting countries need to be determined, and more vehicles would be fun. Also, a rule to switch vehicles can be useful (a player may choose not to move his/her vehicle, but change it for another one. This vehicle will depart from the same country, and will be able to make its first move next month). Perhaps some interaction between the vehicles would be fun as well. Please let me know what you think! Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life! http://www.yellowhead.8m.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamiekjohnston@y... Tue Jan 21 14:25:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Jan 2003 22:25:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 50348 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2003 22:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2003 22:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41214.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2003 22:25:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20030121222501.26183.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.226] by web41214.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:25:01 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:25:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Idea for a Proposal To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000e01c2c153$1ee27880$0200a8c0@s000239> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston I like it. As you say, perhaps the selection of vehicles could be wider - maybe just any vehicle from a work of fiction? I suppose the best way to do it would be to have one rule setting out the general idea, and then individual vehicles and its characteristics can be set up by subsequent rules. Or perhaps by procedural motions. It sounds quite complicated, so I'd suggest you work out the wording by e-mail before making any polls - we've had quite a lot of poll-amending lately, which gets a bit confusing. Good idea, though! Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 26 18:35:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 65968 invoked by uid 7800); 27 Jan 2003 02:35:01 -0000 Date: 27 Jan 2003 02:35:01 -0000 Message-ID: <1043634901.20.65967.m6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On Reasonable Doubt II: If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% - For, 3 votes, 100.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 26 18:35:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97101 invoked by uid 7800); 27 Jan 2003 02:35:01 -0000 Date: 27 Jan 2003 02:35:01 -0000 Message-ID: <1043634901.17.97100.m9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: On The Overturning Of Rulings: In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 100.00% - Against, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Jan 27 09:54:27 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Jan 2003 17:54:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 41394 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2003 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2003 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41203.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2003 17:54:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20030127175426.25162.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.222] by web41203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:54:26 GMT Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:54:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Rule Broken JML 5 A To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1043634901.17.97100.m9@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston In accordance with the rules On Reasonable Doubt I & II: It seems to me that Martin has broken Rule 5: Bob by presenting a poll (entitled The Taking of Monaco, 1,2,3) which contains the word 'emself'. This word appears to be intended as a pronoun, but it is not an English word or an alternative which is allowed by the current rules. I think it is fairly clear that it's not a typing error, when considered in the context of the proposal 'Spivak Pronouns'. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Jan 27 09:56:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 27 Jan 2003 17:56:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 72586 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2003 17:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2003 17:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41206.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.39) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2003 17:55:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20030127175550.4869.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.222] by web41206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:55:50 GMT Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:55:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Rule Broken JML 5 B To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1043634901.17.97100.m9@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston In accordance with the rules On Reasonable Doubt I & II: It seems to me that Martin has broken Rule 5: Bob a second time by presenting a poll (entitled Monaco and Eir Many Masters) which contains the word 'eir'. This word appears to be intended as a pronoun, but it is not an English word or an alternative which is allowed by the current rules. I think it is fairly clear that it's not a typing error, when considered in the context of the proposal 'Spivak Pronouns'. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 02 11:33:45 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34074 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Feb 2003 19:33:45 -0000 Date: 2 Feb 2003 19:33:45 -0000 Message-ID: <1044214425.40724082.37052.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From jamiekjohnston@y... Sun Feb 09 08:25:07 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: pure_nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 9 Feb 2003 16:25:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 6284 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 16:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2003 16:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41206.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.39) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 16:25:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20030209162506.37369.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.226] by web41206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Feb 2003 16:25:06 GMT Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:25:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Countries awarded To: Pure Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi all, On 27th Jan two rule violations were raised. Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I states: "If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule." The tenth day was the 7th of Feb, two days ago. At that time no 'doubt raised' messages had appeared, so the rule violations stand. We now refer to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, which states: "When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries." The next two players on the list are myself and Jeff. The next two countries are Algeria and Andorra, so I receive Algeria (which is in Africa) and Jeff receives Andorra (which is in Europe). Currently I hold two countries in North America and one in Africa, Jeff and Chris hold one country each in Europe, and Rachel has a country in Asia. South America, Antarctica and Australasia are entirely unclaimed. The relevant files have been updated. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 09 08:28:55 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75398 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2003 16:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2003 16:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2003 16:28:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.148] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2003 16:28:52 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2003 16:28:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1044808130.87.4468.w28@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: Procedural Motion: Expulsion of Player - Russell (russellp@m...). o Expel this player o Do not expel this player To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1035250 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 16 12:39:57 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 38068 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Feb 2003 20:39:57 -0000 Date: 16 Feb 2003 20:39:57 -0000 Message-ID: <1045427997.44696014.27806.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Feb 19 18:38:50 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26681 invoked by uid 7800); 20 Feb 2003 02:38:50 -0000 Date: 20 Feb 2003 02:38:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1045708730.23.26680.m15@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Procedural Motion: Expulsion of Player - Russell (russellp@m...). CHOICES AND RESULTS - Expel this player, 5 votes, 100.00% - Do not expel this player, 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Feb 21 04:45:08 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 21 Feb 2003 12:45:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 14953 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2003 12:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2003 12:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41214.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2003 12:45:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20030221124508.4341.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.228] by web41214.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:45:08 GMT Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:45:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1045708730.23.26680.m15@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Russel has been expelled from the game, as resolved by the Procedural Motion just passed. Which is, incidentally, the first Procedural Motion we've passed, so that's fun. We now have the ages of all current players, and can therefore put the provisions of Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule into effect. These are the ages (in no particular order): Me: 21 (5 Aug 81) Jeff: 19 (20 Oct 83) Chris G: 32 (3 Apr 1970) Stefan: 21 (28 Nov 81) Martin: 33 (13 Aug 69) Rachel: 20 (6th Jan 83) By my calculations, the eldest player in the game is Martin, who therefore receives Monaco. That's the easy bit. Next, we need to find "the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time" - that's the time when rule 25 passed, which was on 30th December 2002. By my reckoning at that time the ages were: Me: 21 (5 Aug 81) Jeff: 19 (20 Oct 83) Chris G: 32 (3 Apr 1970) Stefan: 21 (28 Nov 81) Martin: 33 (13 Aug 69) Rachel: 19 (6th Jan 83) The mean age should be 21+19+32+21+33+19=176, 176/6=29.33... so the nearest player was Chris, who therefore gets Brazil. Next, "the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month)" will be the player whose age was nearest to 30, that is, Chris again! So he also gets Japan. Finally, "the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America." By my count those are me and Stefan, being less than four months apart. Please would everyone check my calculations before I chage the relevant files - arithmetic is really not my strong point. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From zenomic@m... Sun Feb 23 04:34:45 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zenomic@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 23 Feb 2003 12:34:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 28319 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2003 12:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2003 12:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2003 12:34:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2003 12:34:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:34:43 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for Pure_Nomic Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030221124508.4341.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 644 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jmlyle_yg " X-Originating-IP: 206.71.121.163 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120322508 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Seems right to me, but then, I happen to have a headache. Also, I just noticed that I don't get a LOT of messages from yahoogroups. They get "soft bounced" for some reason. Does anyone else have this happen as well? - martin --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jamie Johnston wrote: > Martin, who therefore receives Monaco. > Chris, who therefore gets Brazil. > is, Chris again! So he also gets Japan. > > Finally, "the two players whose ages are closest > together shall be awarded joint possession of the > United States of America." By my count those are me > and Stefan, being less than four months apart. > From jamiekjohnston@y... Mon Feb 24 15:08:47 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 24 Feb 2003 23:08:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 24037 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2003 23:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2003 23:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41215.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 23:08:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20030224230845.97809.qmail@w...> Received: from [129.67.65.221] by web41215.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:08:45 GMT Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:08:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: Poll results for Pure_Nomic To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Okay, I'll put those in the official lists and what not. Not sure about your bouncing messages - I haven't noticed having that problem. Jamie ===== www.strategikon.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 02 16:22:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89409 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Mar 2003 00:22:32 -0000 Date: 3 Mar 2003 00:22:32 -0000 Message-ID: <1046650952.58051179.93218.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 16 19:57:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 54899 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Mar 2003 03:57:34 -0000 Date: 17 Mar 2003 03:57:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1047873454.70953992.79598.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 30 23:40:25 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11390 invoked by uid 7800); 31 Mar 2003 07:40:25 -0000 Date: 31 Mar 2003 07:40:24 -0000 Message-ID: <1049096425.84324520.34270.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Apr 13 19:00:06 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 88973 invoked by uid 7800); 14 Apr 2003 02:00:05 -0000 Date: 14 Apr 2003 02:00:05 -0000 Message-ID: <1050285605.67504904.8415.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Fri May 02 19:41:39 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 42774 invoked by uid 7800); 3 May 2003 02:41:38 -0000 Date: 3 May 2003 02:41:38 -0000 Message-ID: <1051929698.501998142.56881.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun May 18 14:01:47 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69876 invoked by uid 7800); 18 May 2003 21:01:46 -0000 Date: 18 May 2003 21:01:46 -0000 Message-ID: <1053291706.654406189.21192.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun May 25 01:44:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 38328 invoked by uid 7800); 25 May 2003 08:44:52 -0000 Date: 25 May 2003 08:44:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1053852292.5391287.76872.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 08 02:32:20 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 70251 invoked by uid 7800); 8 Jun 2003 09:32:19 -0000 Date: 8 Jun 2003 09:32:19 -0000 Message-ID: <1055064739.8238532.96691.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 22 02:54:31 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 66760 invoked by uid 7800); 22 Jun 2003 09:54:30 -0000 Date: 22 Jun 2003 09:54:30 -0000 Message-ID: <1056275670.9569867.7118.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 06 03:27:23 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79459 invoked by uid 7800); 6 Jul 2003 10:27:23 -0000 Date: 6 Jul 2003 10:27:23 -0000 Message-ID: <1057487243.11542280.73825.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 20 03:30:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22207 invoked by uid 7800); 20 Jul 2003 10:30:26 -0000 Date: 20 Jul 2003 10:30:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1058697026.11725844.42041.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 03 03:19:36 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 33181 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Aug 2003 10:19:35 -0000 Date: 3 Aug 2003 10:19:35 -0000 Message-ID: <1059905975.11075146.59551.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 17 02:18:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96717 invoked by uid 7800); 17 Aug 2003 09:18:28 -0000 Date: 17 Aug 2003 09:18:28 -0000 Message-ID: <1061111908.7408698.17183.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 31 06:40:43 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24499 invoked by uid 7800); 31 Aug 2003 08:43:07 -0000 Date: 31 Aug 2003 08:43:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1062319387.5285940.86578.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 14 00:55:27 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 40760 invoked by uid 7800); 14 Sep 2003 07:55:26 -0000 Date: 14 Sep 2003 07:55:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1063526126.2425721.90926.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 28 00:15:32 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89351 invoked by uid 7800); 28 Sep 2003 07:15:28 -0000 Date: 28 Sep 2003 07:15:28 -0000 Message-ID: <1064733328.27751.88927.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 12 13:38:29 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 99619 invoked by uid 7800); 12 Oct 2003 20:38:29 -0000 Date: 12 Oct 2003 20:38:29 -0000 Message-ID: <1065991109.48208747.52512.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 09 12:12:22 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 43230 invoked by uid 7800); 9 Nov 2003 20:12:21 -0000 Date: 9 Nov 2003 20:12:21 -0000 Message-ID: <1068408741.43040630.2055.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 23 11:22:34 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81174 invoked by uid 7800); 23 Nov 2003 19:22:34 -0000 Date: 23 Nov 2003 19:22:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1069615353.40053590.52600.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 07 11:54:52 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25972 invoked by uid 7800); 7 Dec 2003 19:54:52 -0000 Date: 7 Dec 2003 19:54:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1070826892.41991726.82218.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From zev@i... Fri Dec 12 09:31:00 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: zev@i... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78614 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2003 17:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2003 17:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.108) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2003 17:31:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.253] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2003 17:30:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:30:41 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Is this game still active? Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 156 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.108 From: "Zev" X-Originating-IP: 198.68.8.36 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137558906 X-Yahoo-Profile: waynes1068 I'm looking for a game of Nomic. Is this game still active? And if not, can someone point me in the direction of a game that is currently running? Zev From jamiekjohnston@y... Fri Dec 12 11:41:00 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12105 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2003 19:40:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2003 19:40:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.12.10.40) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2003 19:40:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20031212194057.40202.qmail@w...> Received: from [172.186.29.13] by web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:40:57 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:40:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Is this game still active? To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.12.10.40 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston Hi Zev, The game is still active in principle; as it happens no one has made any moves for a while, but I'm quite happy to carry on. I don't know of any other games, though there may be some around. Have you looked at the rules so far? Jamie ===== www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Dec 23 03:35:02 2003 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9318 invoked by uid 7800); 23 Dec 2003 11:35:02 -0000 Date: 23 Dec 2003 11:35:02 -0000 Message-ID: <1072179302.184801260.16996.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 07 08:57:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4142 invoked by uid 7800); 7 Jan 2004 16:57:59 -0000 Date: 7 Jan 2004 16:57:59 -0000 Message-ID: <1073494679.290577923.21398.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Feb 03 10:50:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11668 invoked by uid 7800); 3 Feb 2004 18:50:03 -0000 Date: 3 Feb 2004 18:50:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1075834203.210902330.57709.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Feb 11 08:34:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17054 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2004 16:34:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2004 16:34:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2004 16:34:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2004 16:34:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 99218 invoked by uid 65534); 11 Feb 2004 16:34:46 -0000 Date: 11 Feb 2004 16:34:46 -0000 Message-ID: <1076517286.426.99056.w31@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: To See If Anyone Is There: Every country in the continent of Asia shall become possessed by Jamie. o For o Against To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1178636 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From jamiekjohnston@y... Wed Feb 11 09:05:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32566 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2004 17:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2004 17:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.12.10.39) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2004 17:05:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20040211170538.48790.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.105.5] by web25003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:05:38 GMT Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:05:38 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1076517286.426.99056.w31@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.12.10.39 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston > To See If Anyone Is There: > Every country in the continent of Asia > shall become possessed by Jamie. > > o For > o Against Gosh! Thank you, whoever proposed this one. I'm for it. Jamie ===== www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk From wandrer@w... Wed Feb 11 14:20:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12312 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2004 22:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2004 22:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep16-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.26) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2004 22:20:42 -0000 Received: from s000239 ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep16-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040211222029.SRYE17439.amsfep16-int.chello.nl@s000239> for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:20:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c3f0ed$4259c280$0200a8c0@s000239> To: References: <20040211170538.48790.qmail@w...> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:20:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.26 From: "Stefan" Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan > > To See If Anyone Is There: > > Every country in the continent of Asia > > shall become possessed by Jamie. > > > > o For > > o Against > > Gosh! Thank you, whoever proposed this one. I'm for > it. > > Jamie ...and by the looks of it, you're not even the only one! Stefan (who is inclined to vote "against"). From jmlyle@m... Wed Feb 11 16:49:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47017 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2004 00:49:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2004 00:49:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2004 00:49:23 -0000 Received: from mutantborg ([68.209.115.192]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040212004922.MZRG1733.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:49:22 -0500 To: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:49:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000c01c3f0ed$4259c280$0200a8c0@s000239> Thread-index: AcPw7UwH5aFrleYFRayP3Gpa1rnk2QAFD/eg Message-Id: <20040212004922.MZRG1733.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.68 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, yes. I have been inspired into decisive and dramatic action. I emphatically click my vote "Against." -- Martin _____ From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:20 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic > > To See If Anyone Is There: > > Every country in the continent of Asia > > shall become possessed by Jamie. > > > > o For > > o Against > > Gosh! Thank you, whoever proposed this one. I'm for > it. > > Jamie ...and by the looks of it, you're not even the only one! Stefan (who is inclined to vote "against"). ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamiekjohnston@y... Thu Feb 12 09:01:42 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jamiekjohnston@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99212 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2004 17:01:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2004 17:01:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.12.10.44) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2004 17:01:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20040212170132.64783.qmail@w...> Received: from [163.1.92.68] by web25008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:01:32 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:01:32 +0000 (GMT) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040212004922.MZRG1733.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.12.10.44 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Johnston?= Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] New poll for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124398987 X-Yahoo-Profile: jamiekjohnston > Ah, yes. I have been inspired into decisive and > dramatic action. I > emphatically click my vote "Against." Bah. ;) Jamie ===== www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 15 12:45:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 92344 invoked by uid 7800); 15 Feb 2004 20:45:10 -0000 Date: 15 Feb 2004 20:45:10 -0000 Message-ID: <1076877910.45009851.41464.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 22 18:59:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 78995 invoked by uid 7800); 23 Feb 2004 02:59:56 -0000 Date: 23 Feb 2004 02:59:56 -0000 Message-ID: <1077505196.41.78994.m14@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: To See If Anyone Is There: Every country in the continent of Asia shall become possessed by Jamie. CHOICES AND RESULTS - For, 3 votes, 60.00% - Against, 2 votes, 40.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From wandrer@w... Mon Feb 23 02:50:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89306 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2004 10:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2004 10:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2004 10:50:25 -0000 Received: from standaard ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep20-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040223105024.LHVF1492.amsfep20-int.chello.nl@standaard> for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:50:24 +0100 Message-ID: <002a01c3f9fc$1c7f85a0$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <1077505196.41.78994.m14@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:59:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "Stefan" Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan Well, Jamie, have fun with the Power of Monaco ;) (I changed my vote a few days ago, just to see how this will work out). Yours, Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.nl/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:59 AM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: To See If Anyone Is There: > Every country in the continent of Asia > shall become possessed by Jamie. > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - For, 3 votes, 60.00% > - Against, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From jmlyle@m... Mon Feb 23 06:00:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5459 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2004 14:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2004 14:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.68) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2004 14:00:38 -0000 Received: from mutantborg ([68.209.115.192]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040223140032.QGP1827.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:00:32 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:00:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcP5/Il5LNMH5p0VSO2B+V0c+5sxigAGNqsw In-Reply-To: <002a01c3f9fc$1c7f85a0$44642ed5@a...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040223140032.QGP1827.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.68 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You BASTARD! _____ From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:59 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Well, Jamie, have fun with the Power of Monaco ;) (I changed my vote a few days ago, just to see how this will work out). Yours, Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.nl/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:59 AM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: To See If Anyone Is There: > Every country in the continent of Asia > shall become possessed by Jamie. > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - For, 3 votes, 60.00% > - Against, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jmlyle@m... Mon Feb 23 06:02:49 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13296 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2004 14:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2004 14:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.68) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2004 14:02:48 -0000 Received: from mutantborg ([68.209.115.192]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040223140246.RHK1827.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:02:46 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:02:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcP5/Il5LNMH5p0VSO2B+V0c+5sxigAGSDZw In-Reply-To: <002a01c3f9fc$1c7f85a0$44642ed5@a...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040223140246.RHK1827.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.68 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was Monaco owned previously? _____ From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:59 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Well, Jamie, have fun with the Power of Monaco ;) (I changed my vote a few days ago, just to see how this will work out). Yours, Stefan. --- YellowHead Studios. Where LEGO comes to life. http://www.yellowhead.nl/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:59 AM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > > The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: To See If Anyone Is There: > Every country in the continent of Asia > shall become possessed by Jamie. > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - For, 3 votes, 60.00% > - Against, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wandrer@w... Mon Feb 23 06:34:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16928 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2004 14:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2004 14:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2004 14:34:47 -0000 Received: from standaard ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040223143446.BQGL22695.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@standaard> for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:34:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c3fa1b$737033e0$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <20040223140246.RHK1827.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:43:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "Stefan" Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan > Was Monaco owned previously? > I don't think so. From jmlyle@m... Mon Feb 23 22:32:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84970 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 06:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2004 06:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.71) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2004 06:32:32 -0000 Received: from mutantborg ([68.209.115.192]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040224063230.UXKZ22977.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:32:30 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:32:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcP6GjOzAmx+cvxGSq+JQeljVaApzwAhIR6w In-Reply-To: <000801c3fa1b$737033e0$44642ed5@a...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040224063230.UXKZ22977.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.71 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Upon another look at the rules, I don't think either Rule 30 or 31 apply. 31 requires "more than 5 votes cast" And, of course, 31 explicitly states "excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player" _____ From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:44 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > Was Monaco owned previously? > I don't think so. ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jmlyle@m... Mon Feb 23 22:46:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42014 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 06:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2004 06:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2004 06:46:46 -0000 Received: from mutantborg ([68.209.115.192]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040224064644.UGSC1896.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:46:44 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:46:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcP6GjOzAmx+cvxGSq+JQeljVaApzwAhIR6wAADLO+A= In-Reply-To: <20040224063230.UXKZ22977.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040224064644.UGSC1896.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.70 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doh, I meant something else. If you didn't notice. _____ From: Martin Lyle [mailto:jmlyle@m...] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic Upon another look at the rules, I don't think either Rule 30 or 31 apply. 31 requires "more than 5 votes cast" And, of course, 31 explicitly states "excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player" _____ From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:44 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic > Was Monaco owned previously? > I don't think so. ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wandrer@w... Tue Feb 24 02:40:28 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8186 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 10:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2004 10:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.24) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2004 10:40:26 -0000 Received: from standaard ([213.46.100.68]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040224104020.FRVJ17867.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@standaard> for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:40:20 +0100 Message-ID: <005501c3fac3$df7a3240$44642ed5@a...> To: References: <20040224064644.UGSC1896.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mutantborg> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:49:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.24 From: "Stefan" Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Poll results for Pure_Nomic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan > Upon another look at the rules, I don't think either Rule 30 or 31 apply. > > 31 requires "more than 5 votes cast" > > And, of course, 30 explicitly states "excluding the first time > that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player" > You're right! That's too bad, because that means at the moment we cannot use that particular aspect of the rule. Theoretically we have 6 players, but we're getting only 5 votes for our polls. Pity... Stefan From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Feb 29 14:51:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8664 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Feb 2004 22:42:33 -0000 Date: 29 Feb 2004 22:42:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1078094553.52052826.46192.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 14 00:27:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64020 invoked by uid 7800); 14 Mar 2004 08:27:03 -0000 Date: 14 Mar 2004 08:27:03 -0000 Message-ID: <1079252823.723424.42882.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 28 00:49:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 92628 invoked by uid 7800); 28 Mar 2004 08:46:35 -0000 Date: 28 Mar 2004 08:46:35 -0000 Message-ID: <1080463595.1894697.13503.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Apr 11 00:52:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30277 invoked by uid 7800); 11 Apr 2004 07:52:44 -0000 Date: 11 Apr 2004 07:52:44 -0000 Message-ID: <1081669964.2263091.75578.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Apr 25 01:11:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 54768 invoked by uid 7800); 25 Apr 2004 08:11:19 -0000 Date: 25 Apr 2004 08:11:19 -0000 Message-ID: <1082880679.3378632.74531.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun May 09 01:32:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23159 invoked by uid 7800); 9 May 2004 08:32:41 -0000 Date: 9 May 2004 08:32:41 -0000 Message-ID: <1084091561.4660158.21544.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun May 23 01:30:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 44585 invoked by uid 7800); 23 May 2004 08:30:16 -0000 Date: 23 May 2004 08:30:15 -0000 Message-ID: <1085301016.4515465.37336.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 06 01:27:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 70227 invoked by uid 7800); 6 Jun 2004 08:27:47 -0000 Date: 6 Jun 2004 08:27:47 -0000 Message-ID: <1086510467.4366660.74569.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 20 01:25:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 86165 invoked by uid 7800); 20 Jun 2004 08:25:34 -0000 Date: 20 Jun 2004 08:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1087719934.4233638.88339.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 04 01:21:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9877 invoked by uid 7800); 4 Jul 2004 08:21:21 -0000 Date: 4 Jul 2004 08:21:21 -0000 Message-ID: <1088929281.3980462.34749.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jul 18 01:23:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11009 invoked by uid 7800); 18 Jul 2004 08:23:08 -0000 Date: 18 Jul 2004 08:23:08 -0000 Message-ID: <1090138988.4087146.28281.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 01 02:46:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55289 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Aug 2004 09:00:54 -0000 Date: 1 Aug 2004 09:00:54 -0000 Message-ID: <1091350854.6353463.20473.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 15 01:40:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79264 invoked by uid 7800); 15 Aug 2004 08:40:02 -0000 Date: 15 Aug 2004 08:40:02 -0000 Message-ID: <1092559202.5101446.21767.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Aug 29 01:48:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 49126 invoked by uid 7800); 29 Aug 2004 08:48:26 -0000 Date: 29 Aug 2004 08:48:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1093769306.5605595.86366.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 12 01:48:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25303 invoked by uid 7800); 12 Sep 2004 08:48:06 -0000 Date: 12 Sep 2004 08:48:06 -0000 Message-ID: <1094978886.5584693.56542.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 26 01:57:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21072 invoked by uid 7800); 26 Sep 2004 08:57:08 -0000 Date: 26 Sep 2004 08:57:08 -0000 Message-ID: <1096189028.6127864.41876.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 10 01:57:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 51045 invoked by uid 7800); 10 Oct 2004 08:57:37 -0000 Date: 10 Oct 2004 08:57:37 -0000 Message-ID: <1097398657.6156988.68992.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 24 02:11:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64535 invoked by uid 7800); 24 Oct 2004 09:11:50 -0000 Date: 24 Oct 2004 09:11:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1098609110.7009847.78502.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 07 02:26:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 45345 invoked by uid 7800); 7 Nov 2004 10:26:25 -0000 Date: 7 Nov 2004 10:26:25 -0000 Message-ID: <1099823185.7884792.51282.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Nov 21 02:24:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17315 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Nov 2004 10:24:52 -0000 Date: 21 Nov 2004 10:24:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1101032692.7791668.18514.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 05 02:19:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 50164 invoked by uid 7800); 5 Dec 2004 10:19:40 -0000 Date: 5 Dec 2004 10:19:40 -0000 Message-ID: <1102241980.7479453.49790.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Dec 19 02:48:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21301 invoked by uid 7800); 19 Dec 2004 10:48:36 -0000 Date: 19 Dec 2004 10:48:36 -0000 Message-ID: <1103453316.9216058.21072.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 02 02:35:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75879 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Jan 2005 10:35:57 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2005 10:35:56 -0000 Message-ID: <1104662157.8455857.72158.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 02 02:35:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 75879 invoked by uid 7800); 2 Jan 2005 10:35:57 -0000 Date: 2 Jan 2005 10:35:56 -0000 Message-ID: <1104662157.8455857.72158.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 16 02:54:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 40619 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Jan 2005 10:54:34 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2005 10:54:34 -0000 Message-ID: <1105872874.9573404.34389.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org] From uckelman@n... Sun Jan 16 10:25:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: uckelman@n... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43794 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 18:25:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 18:25:17 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:25:16 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 72 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "jduckelman" X-Originating-IP: 128.104.60.155 Subject: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=117257528 X-Yahoo-Profile: jduckelman Hi, This game seems dead. May I archive it in the nomic.net archives? From punkbass_2000@y... Sun Jan 16 10:33:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15790 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 18:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 18:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web51404.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.183) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 18:33:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 66964 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jan 2005 18:33:12 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=r21rzSOSfM7PU/oIWI3whSZM8QxKEzSbNTPnIunqQTJtIa9jEAW2gJ+sAjlclRKNAhVtbZeHo+TiQ4xj9qTcAkp8U2ZE/gJ3OsWNK0VSMv+wn3w9ZtLUT9bDMwoYf4NDsHtCd3ils1TvgBsWons89lBMwIkeBYntyS15VEws+9A= ; Message-ID: <20050116183312.66962.qmail@w...> Received: from [70.48.254.250] by web51404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:33:12 PST Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:33:12 -0800 (PST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.183 From: Jeff Kolnick Reply-To: punkbass@g... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 Fine by me. I wonder whether you'll even get another response, but I must let you know that I'm not the founder or administrator in any sense. This game has been dead for year at least, though, so how long you want to wait or how deep you want to dig to find other people is, of course, entirely at your discretion. --- jduckelman wrote: > > Hi, > > This game seems dead. May I archive it in the > nomic.net archives? > > > > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From jmlyle@m... Sun Jan 16 10:58:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66235 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 18:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 18:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 18:58:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 18:58:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 18:58:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:58:46 -0000 To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050116183312.66962.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1166 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 From: "jmlyle_yg" X-Originating-IP: 68.209.115.192 Subject: Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg I think we should propose a parliamentary procedure for forming a=20 committee for judging the feasibility of archiving this game. I=20 rcommend making jduckelman the Under Secretary of Feasibility=20 Discernment. - martin --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kolnick =20 wrote: > Fine by me. I wonder whether you'll even get another > response, but I must let you know that I'm not the > founder or administrator in any sense. This game has > been dead for year at least, though, so how long you > want to wait or how deep you want to dig to find other > people is, of course, entirely at your discretion. >=20 > --- jduckelman wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > This game seems dead. May I archive it in the > > nomic.net archives? > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi- standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they=20 Japanese?"; "No." > "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori > "Oh, right, we're cold."=A0-Lori >=20 >=20 >=20=09=09 > __________________________________=20 > Do you Yahoo!?=20 > All your favorites on one personal page =96 Try My Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 17 00:50:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 36685 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 08:50:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2005 08:50:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 08:50:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2005 08:50:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2005 08:50:53 -0000 Date: 17 Jan 2005 08:50:51 -0000 Message-ID: <1105951851.198.6063.w104@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: poll X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Pure_Nomic group: The Dead Cow It is not allowed to create any new rules or procedural motions. o Okay! Let's kill this game! o No, I still want to play. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/surveys?id=1600947 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From wandrer@w... Mon Jan 17 00:51:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66616 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 08:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2005 08:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pastinakel.tue.nl) (131.155.2.7) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 08:51:41 -0000 Received: by pastinakel.tue.nl (Postfix, from userid 40) id D2DA714BE76; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:51:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from s000239 (dyn254.win.tue.nl [131.155.70.6]) by pastinakel.tue.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 7490914BC82 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:51:32 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <010801c4fc71$c52cd450$6501a8c0@s000239> To: References: Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:51:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on pastinakel.tue.nl X-Spam-DCC: dmv.com: pastinakel.tue.nl 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=6.3 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.64 X-Spam-Level: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 131.155.2.7 From: "Stefan" Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan While this game brought me voice actors for a film that generates about a gig of traffic everyday near christmas time (thanks, Martin!), it doesn't really seem to be alive. So why not kill it? Stefan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jmlyle_yg" To: Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 7:58 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives I think we should propose a parliamentary procedure for forming a committee for judging the feasibility of archiving this game. I rcommend making jduckelman the Under Secretary of Feasibility Discernment. - martin --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kolnick wrote: > Fine by me. I wonder whether you'll even get another > response, but I must let you know that I'm not the > founder or administrator in any sense. This game has > been dead for year at least, though, so how long you > want to wait or how deep you want to dig to find other > people is, of course, entirely at your discretion. > > --- jduckelman wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > This game seems dead. May I archive it in the > > nomic.net archives? > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi- standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." > "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori > "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links From jmlyle@m... Tue Jan 18 03:57:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96540 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2005 11:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2005 11:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.66) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2005 11:57:28 -0000 Received: from mubor ([68.209.115.192]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050118115701.XVZL2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:57:01 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:57:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <010801c4fc71$c52cd450$6501a8c0@s000239> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcT8ccRp/J9FwofHSYKYYO+m5DVqxgA4eUZg Message-Id: <20050118115701.XVZL2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.66 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, yes, yes.... I suppose a coup d'etat is in order to usurp the democratically established traditions and institute a draconian, dictatorial proclamation to declare that Pure Nomic is dead. Especially since draconian, dictatorial stuff seems to be where my country has been heading for a few years.... And you're welcome Stefan. I thoroughly enjoyed it. By the way, jduckelman, what exactly is the "nomic.net archives?" -- martin _____ From: Stefan [mailto:wandrer@w...] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:52 AM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives While this game brought me voice actors for a film that generates about a gig of traffic everyday near christmas time (thanks, Martin!), it doesn't really seem to be alive. So why not kill it? Stefan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jmlyle_yg" To: Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 7:58 PM Subject: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives I think we should propose a parliamentary procedure for forming a committee for judging the feasibility of archiving this game. I rcommend making jduckelman the Under Secretary of Feasibility Discernment. - martin --- In Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kolnick wrote: > Fine by me. I wonder whether you'll even get another > response, but I must let you know that I'm not the > founder or administrator in any sense. This game has > been dead for year at least, though, so how long you > want to wait or how deep you want to dig to find other > people is, of course, entirely at your discretion. > > --- jduckelman wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > This game seems dead. May I archive it in the > > nomic.net archives? > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi- standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." > "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori > "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wandrer@w... Tue Jan 18 05:15:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: wandrer@w... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5355 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2005 13:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2005 13:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2005 13:15:36 -0000 Received: from s000239 ([80.56.190.17]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with SMTP id <20050118131534.WURE24449.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@s000239> for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:15:34 +0100 Message-ID: <017301c4fd5f$d2e06be0$6501a8c0@s000239> To: References: <20050118115701.XVZL2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:15:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.17 From: "Stefan" Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41189103 X-Yahoo-Profile: wandrerstefan > By the way, jduckelman, what exactly is the "nomic.net archives?" > > -- martin > It's where our country list is: http://www.nomic.net/archive.html states: Pure_Nomic: email-based, ran 21 November 2000-February 2003. Pure_Nomic links to http://www.nomic.net/deadgames/Pure_Nomic/ Apparently the archiving has been done already. Stefan. From uckelman@n... Tue Jan 18 11:20:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: uckelman@e... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46662 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2005 19:20:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2005 19:20:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scylla.ellipsis.cx) (68.249.67.146) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2005 19:20:50 -0000 Received: by scylla.ellipsis.cx (Postfix, from userid 500) id 7E20EAF3E; Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:20:49 -0600 (CST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:57:19 EST." <20050118115701.XVZL2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:20:49 -0600 Sender: uckelman@e... Message-Id: <20050118192049.7E20EAF3E@s...> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.249.67.146 From: Joel Uckelman Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=117257528 X-Yahoo-Profile: jduckelman Thus spake "Martin Lyle": > By the way, jduckelman, what exactly is the "nomic.net archives?" > -- martin The nomic.net archives is a collection of materials from dead nomic games. It's front page is here: http://www.nomic.net/archive.html. Dead games have a tendency to disappear from the web; since summer of 2001 I've been gathering them to prevent that. From uckelman@n... Tue Jan 18 11:30:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: uckelman@e... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37930 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2005 19:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2005 19:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scylla.ellipsis.cx) (68.249.67.146) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2005 19:30:27 -0000 Received: by scylla.ellipsis.cx (Postfix, from userid 500) id 72F0AAF3E; Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:30:27 -0600 (CST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:15:46 +0100." <017301c4fd5f$d2e06be0$6501a8c0@s000239> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:30:27 -0600 Sender: uckelman@e... Message-Id: <20050118193027.72F0AAF3E@s...> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.249.67.146 From: Joel Uckelman Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=117257528 X-Yahoo-Profile: jduckelman Thus spake "Stefan": > Apparently the archiving has been done already. > Stefan. My appologies for jumping the gun. Seldom do my requests for permission to archive games result in more than one response; I'd assumed that after the first there wouldn't be more. From jmlyle@m... Tue Jan 18 21:10:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmlyle@m... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3625 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 05:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 05:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 05:10:08 -0000 Received: from mubor ([68.209.115.192]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050119051007.XDTG2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:10:07 -0500 To: Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:10:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20050118193027.72F0AAF3E@s...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcT9lYGhR/WAskatR/utYQ5k6Oz05AASkbzg Message-Id: <20050119051007.XDTG2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.152.59.66 From: "Martin Lyle" Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8666877 X-Yahoo-Profile: jmlyle_yg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No problemo. I checked out the archive after I sent the email and noticed that we were there already, too. I'm so glad that this stuff is being kept. Truly bizarre obsession. Of course, I don't think any of us would have ever been drawn nomic if we didn't each have a touch of Asperger's Syndrome. I guess what I'm saying is, you are a freak, sir. But the only difference between us is that you are doing something productive. I admire your initiative and drive. - Martin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is the worst crazy sect I've ever been in. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _____ From: uckelman@e... [mailto:uckelman@e...] On Behalf Of Joel Uckelman Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:30 PM To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives Thus spake "Stefan": > Apparently the archiving has been done already. > Stefan. My appologies for jumping the gun. Seldom do my requests for permission to archive games result in more than one response; I'd assumed that after the first there wouldn't be more. ---------------------------------- Files relating to our game are at http://nomic.strategikon.org ---------------------------------- _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From punkbass_2000@y... Tue Jan 18 21:13:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69527 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 05:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 05:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web51408.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.187) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 05:13:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 73897 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2005 05:13:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=DW4rJ0NTCoRZ6+snAtyc+U4goPvjeF8Jsx66eArHEHy/Wx2R49wITXgbOAvIvXr2txrLYfX61z4YqKGi+IEnnHxSlDUwXnGCGbhNjHAFLudf5PTR4ENDKk6mY2BLxMzt1kMe0V63amv98C26h2atpoQM9oUXWeN7AIb0mo1YQ1c= ; Message-ID: <20050119051318.73895.qmail@w...> Received: from [70.48.254.250] by web51408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:13:18 PST Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:13:18 -0800 (PST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050119051007.XDTG2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.187 From: Jeff Kolnick Reply-To: punkbass@g... Subject: RE: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 I hadn't given it much thought before, but I should check some of those archived games out. I haven't played Nomic before or since, and we didn't really get too far. I'm mildly interested in seeing what a "complete" game might be like. Any recommendations? --- Martin Lyle wrote: > No problemo. I checked out the archive after I sent > the email and noticed > that we were there already, too. I'm so glad that > this stuff is being kept. > > Truly bizarre obsession. Of course, I don't think > any of us would have ever > been drawn nomic if we didn't each have a touch of > Asperger's Syndrome. I > guess what I'm saying is, you are a freak, sir. But > the only difference > between us is that you are doing something > productive. I admire your > initiative and drive. > > > > > > - Martin > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > This is the worst crazy sect I've ever been in. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > _____ > > From: uckelman@e... > [mailto:uckelman@e...] On Behalf Of Joel > Uckelman > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:30 PM > To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives > > > Thus spake "Stefan": > > Apparently the archiving has been done already. > > Stefan. > > My appologies for jumping the gun. Seldom do my > requests for permission to > archive games result in more than one response; I'd > assumed that after the > first there wouldn't be more. > > > > ---------------------------------- > Files relating to our game are at > http://nomic.strategikon.org > ---------------------------------- > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Pure_Nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From uckelman@n... Wed Jan 19 06:29:14 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: uckelman@e... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27337 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 14:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 14:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scylla.ellipsis.cx) (68.249.67.146) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 14:29:13 -0000 Received: by scylla.ellipsis.cx (Postfix, from userid 500) id 2C484AFA0; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:28:11 -0600 (CST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:10:25 EST." <20050119051007.XDTG2042.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mubor> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:28:10 -0600 Sender: uckelman@e... Message-Id: <20050119142811.2C484AFA0@s...> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.249.67.146 From: Joel Uckelman Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=117257528 X-Yahoo-Profile: jduckelman Thus spake "Martin Lyle": > No problemo. I checked out the archive after I sent the email and noticed > that we were there already, too. I'm so glad that this stuff is being kept. > Truly bizarre obsession. Of course, I don't think any of us would have ever > been drawn nomic if we didn't each have a touch of Asperger's Syndrome. I > guess what I'm saying is, you are a freak, sir. But the only difference > between us is that you are doing something productive. I admire your > initiative and drive. > > - Martin Heh. There aren't many old games left now which I haven't archived; if all I have to do is keep up with live games as they die off, I'll soon be able to rachet this down from obsession to unusual hobby. And I only do archiving about once a year. :) From uckelman@n... Wed Jan 19 06:36:16 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: uckelman@e... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93102 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 14:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 14:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scylla.ellipsis.cx) (68.249.67.146) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 14:36:16 -0000 Received: by scylla.ellipsis.cx (Postfix, from userid 500) id E9ACBAFA0; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:36:14 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: inbox To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:13:18 PST." <20050119051318.73895.qmail@w...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:36:14 -0600 Sender: uckelman@e... Message-Id: <20050119143614.E9ACBAFA0@s...> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.249.67.146 From: Joel Uckelman Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=117257528 X-Yahoo-Profile: jduckelman Thus spake Jeff Kolnick: > > I hadn't given it much thought before, but I should > check some of those archived games out. I haven't > played Nomic before or since, and we didn't really get > too far. I'm mildly interested in seeing what a > "complete" game might be like. > > Any recommendations? As far as interesting games go, three that I like are Ackanomic, Mornington Nomic, and WikiNomic. Acka is notable for its quirky sense of humor (they had an object called the Left-Handed Grapefruit) and the immense amount of material it generated (I have 131MB of mostly text in the archive, and I'm missing most stuff prior to May 1996). Mornington Nomic is interesting because it was an attempt to generate a ruleset for the game Mornington Crescent, which is itself part of a long-running joke from a British comedy series. WikiNomic was played on a wiki (obviously) and evolved into a bizarre team sport. (Unfortunately, WikiNomic isn't in the archive at the moment, since I'm still working on extracting its pages from the wiki, which is now so old that it no longer runs.) Most of the games I've archived recently I've barely had a chance to look at yet. There's probably lots of neat stuff there which I don't know about myself. From punkbass_2000@y... Wed Jan 19 07:12:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: punkbass_2000@y... X-Apparently-To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53554 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 15:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 15:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web51403.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.182) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 15:12:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 74394 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2005 15:12:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=hb6WS8zaDHZDlWw1zr7YU0E2uCiEtD+KBPgqOTVIgkiHnttN5DHZMh3DuJRr2Jy6BAz0yXtY+qxZfwteR8djJK5bid6/PJVJ3pymp5KtNUkvP0O2mEvjxlfRz8LFAMcdqMmHKwuqXgjt7gcHh6t30W5e582nuLvuQURXR8Cbakg= ; Message-ID: <20050119151239.74392.qmail@w...> Received: from [70.48.254.250] by web51403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:12:39 PST Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:12:39 -0800 (PST) To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050119143614.E9ACBAFA0@s...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.182 From: Jeff Kolnick Reply-To: punkbass@g... Subject: Re: [Pure_Nomic] Re: nomic.net archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=41768262 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkbass_2000 Those three do sound quite interesting, thank you. I think I'm vaguely familiar with Mornington joke, so that may prove particularly hilarious. --- Joel Uckelman wrote: > Thus spake Jeff Kolnick: > > > > I hadn't given it much thought before, but I > should > > check some of those archived games out. I haven't > > played Nomic before or since, and we didn't really > get > > too far. I'm mildly interested in seeing what a > > "complete" game might be like. > > > > Any recommendations? > > As far as interesting games go, three that I like > are Ackanomic, Mornington > Nomic, and WikiNomic. Acka is notable for its quirky > sense of humor (they > had an object called the Left-Handed Grapefruit) and > the immense amount of > material it generated (I have 131MB of mostly text > in the archive, and I'm > missing most stuff prior to May 1996). Mornington > Nomic is interesting > because it was an attempt to generate a ruleset for > the game Mornington > Crescent, which is itself part of a long-running > joke from a British comedy > series. WikiNomic was played on a wiki (obviously) > and evolved into a > bizarre team sport. (Unfortunately, WikiNomic isn't > in the archive at the > moment, since I'm still working on extracting its > pages from the wiki, > which is now so old that it no longer runs.) > > Most of the games I've archived recently I've barely > had a chance to look > at yet. There's probably lots of neat stuff there > which I don't know about > myself. > > ===== "I only know one Japanese punk band."; "Which?"; "Hi-standard."; "Well, you know Useless ID."; "Yeah. Are they Japanese?"; "No." "Snickering all purr-style." -Lori "Oh, right, we're cold." -Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 27 19:04:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55661 invoked by uid 7800); 28 Jan 2005 03:04:26 -0000 Date: 28 Jan 2005 03:04:26 -0000 Message-ID: <1106881466.21.55660.m6@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: polls X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for Pure_Nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following Pure_Nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: The Dead Cow It is not allowed to create any new rules or procedural motions. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Okay! Let's kill this game!, 2 votes, 100.00% - No, I still want to play., 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jan 30 02:46:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8689 invoked by uid 7800); 30 Jan 2005 10:46:07 -0000 Date: 30 Jan 2005 10:46:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1107081967.9066672.97265.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com To: Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - The Rules Thus Far MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contents 1: The Initial Rule 2: Darth Vader 3: On Conditional Probability 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature 5: Bob 6: Consistency Axiom 7: Final Rule 8: On Voting By Default 9: On The Expulsion Of Players 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule 11: On Legislative Nomenclature 12: On Unnamed Rules 13: On The Renaming Of Rules 14: Definition Of Continent 15: Definition Of Countries And Possession 16: Pork-Barrel Rule 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule 18: On The Untying Of Ties 19: On Elephants 20: On The Breaking Of Rules 21: On The Official List Of Rules 22: On Fireflies 23: On Rules And Procedure 24: On The Choices Offered 25: On The Official List Of Players 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available 27: On Notification 28: On Reasonable Doubt I 29: Spivak Pronouns 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters 32: On Reasonable Doubt II 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings ==================================== 1: The Initial Rule The rules may not be changed without the agreement of all players. 2: Darth Vader The poll on each proposal shall be set by its creator at the time of its creation to close on the tenth day after its creation; except that if the proposal is amended before this time the poll shall be set by its amender at the time of its amendment to close on the tenth day after the amendment. No proposal withdrawn before this time shall be considered passed. 3: On Conditional Probability It is forbidden to discuss the mathematics of conditional probability on this list. 4: On Use Of The Polling Feature The polling feature is to be used only for the proposal of rules, rule amendments, and procedural motions. 5: Bob All polls should be presented in the English language. 6: Consistency Axiom Should two or more rules contradict each other on a given issue, the newest rule will be considered to override the other(s). 7: Final Rule The first person to possess an entire continent is the winner of this game, if and only if at that time a proper definition of "possession" exists. 8: On Voting By Default If by the end of the time-limit for a given proposal there have been no votes against said proposal, it is considered passed. 9: On The Expulsion Of Players A player can be expelled from the game only by the successful passing of procedural motion stating that the player is expelled. The text of the motion must contain the phrase 'Expulsion of Player' followed by the name or yahoo i.d. of the player to be expelled. The poll on the motion shall be set by its creator to close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall be considered passed if there are no votes against it at the time it closes. One of the choices offered in the poll must be explicitly negative: any vote for this option shall be considered a vote against the motion. 10: On The Naming Of The Initial Rule The initial rule shall be officially named 'The Initial Rule', and shall henceforth appear in the official list of rules under that name. 11: On Legislative Nomenclature Every new rule shall be given a name by its proposer at the time of proposal. In the case of rules already entered in the official list of rules, each rule shall be given a name by its original proposer as soon as possible. No rule may be given a name which is already the name of another rule. 12: On Unnamed Rules If after 1st January 2002 any rule in the official list of rules is without a name as prescribed by the rule 'On Legislative Nomenclature', that rule shall be given a name by a method to be determined at the time. 13: On The Renaming Of Rules Once entered in to the list of rules, the name of a rule can only be changed by the successful passage of an amendment to that effect. 14: Definition of Continent The continents in existence on planet Earth have a corresponding virtual existence in the game world. A player in possession of all of the countries in a continent is said to be in possession of that continent. 15: Definition of Countries and Possession A country is a game entity that players may possess that corresponds to a country in the real world as of January 1, 2001. A player may gain possession of a country by proposing a procedural motion to that effect. If said proposal passes in accordance with the rules then in effect, the player gains possession of the country. 16: Pork-Barrel Rule When a rule is proposed, the proposer may include the name of a country as an element of the proposal. It must be included after the regular wording of the rule, and it must be exactly in the form of "Coup d'etat: ", where is the name of a country as defined in rule 15: Definition of Countries and Possession. If the proposal is passed and entered into the rules, the proposer is said to be in the possession of . In addition, when the rule is entered into the listing of "The Rules Thus Far," an addendum shall be made following the rule, declaring that " takes possession of on ," where is the proposer's preferred title, is the name of the country in question, and is the date that the rule is passed, in the form of DDMMYY. 17: On The Territorial Outcome Of The Twenty-Fifth Rule Upon Rule 25 being passed and entered in the official list of Rules Thus Far, under whatever name it may be entered, the eldest player in the game shall be awarded possession of Monaco; the player whose age most nearly approaches the mean age of all the players at the time shall be awarded possession of Brazil; the player whose age is closest to the date of the day on which the poll by which Rule 25 is passed closes (that is, the number of the day in the month) shall be awarded possession of Japan; and the two players whose ages are closest together shall be awarded joint possession of the United States of America. When there are several players who meet the same demand, they will be ordered lexicographically by the last letter of their legal first name, and the last one will be picked. Where this does not resolve the issue, the procedures outlined in Rule 18 shall be followed. 18: On The Untying Of Ties In the case of a tie between players for possession of a country, the player who has successfully proposed the most rules in the preceding three months shall be appointed Arbiter, and must decide which of the tied players receives the aforementioned country, or whether they are to share possession equally. In the event that there is a tie for the position of Arbiter, the position shall be taken by the proposer of the rule most recently passed. 19: On Elephants Players shall give assistance to any elephant if said elephant requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Mexico on 121002) 20: On The Breaking Of Rules An official list of players shall be created, listing players in alphabetical order of family name. This list shall be updated whenever a player joins or leaves the game. The list shall be kept in the 'Files' section of the game's yahoogroups page. Also, an official list of the countries still available shall be created, kept in the same section and updated whenever a country becomes unavailable. When any player is found beyond reasonable doubt to have broken a rule, a player from the list of players shall be given possession of a country from the list of countries. The player to receive the country shall be, in the first case, the first on the list, and in the next case the next, continuing until the last and then returning to the first, except that at no time shall it be the player who broke the rule in question. The country given to that player shall be the first on the list of countries. 21: On The Official List Of Rules The official and authoritative list of the rules shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'The Rules Thus Far', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic/files/The%20Rules%20Thus%20Far. No rule shall be valid until it has been entered in this list. Any rule duly passed in the manner proscribed by the rules then in force shall be entered into this list as soon as possible, and numbered as the next in the numerical sequence. 22: On Fireflies Players shall give assistance to any firefly if said firefly requests assistance. (Jamie Johnston takes possession of Canada on 122002) 23: On Rules And Procedure Any game action taken in violation of a rule in effect at the time the action is taken shall be invalid. 24: On The Choices Offered The proposer of a proposal shall, in creating the poll on that proposal, provide those voting on it with an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against', 'No'). Any vote cast for this option shall be considered a vote 'against said proposal' as specified in Rule 8: On Voting By Default. A vote for any other option shall not be so considered. 25: On The Official List of Players Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of players shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Players', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of 20Players. No person shall be considered a player unless he or she is on this list. Any person joining the Pure Nomic e-mail list will be entered into this list as soon as possible, and any person leaving the e-mail list or being expelled from the game in the manner proscribed in Rule 9: On The Expulsion Of Players shall be removed as soon as possible. 26: On The Official List Of Countries Still Available Pursuant to Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules, the official and authoritative list of countries still available shall be that contained in the plain-text file named 'List Of Countries Still Available', located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pure_Nomic /files/List%20Of%20Countries%20Still% 20Available. No country not contained in this list shall be considered a country in this game. For the purposes of Rule 20: On the Breaking Of Rules, the country to be given to the player in question shall be the first on the list which is not enclosed in square brackets. When there are no such countries left, it shall be the country which has been possessed by its current possessor for longest. When a players acquires possession of a country, the name of that country in the list shall be placed in square brackets as soon as possible. If a country enters a state of being possessed by no one, the square brackets shall be removed from its name in the list as soon as possible. 27: On Notification Any player amending a proposal for which the poll is still open shall on the same day send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list announcing the change. 28: On Reasonable Doubt I Any player may at any time formally point out a suspected rule infringment by sending a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list stating which rule seems to have been broken and in what way and by which player it seems to have been broken. The subject line of the message must contain, in this order, the phrase 'Rule Broken', the initials of the player suspected and the number of the rule apparently broken. (Such a message may deal with only one case of suspect rule infringment by only one player. Where more than one player is suspected, or where more than one infringment is suspected, multiple messages may be sent. If multiple messages to be sent would have the same subject line, a letter A should be added to the end of the subject line of the first, B to that of the second, and so on.) Any player may then formally raise doubt about the validity of the suspicion by sending a message to the e-mail list with the same subject line as the original message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' should be replaced with the phrase 'Doubt Raised'. The message should set out the grounds on which the suspicion is to be doubted. If on the tenth day after the original 'Rule Broken' message appeared on the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e- mail list no 'Doubt Raised' messages have appeared, it will be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule. 29: Spivak Pronouns Spivak pronouns will not be used. 30: The Taking of Monaco, 1, 2, 3 At the moment when a player gains control of Monaco (excluding the first time that Monaco becomes Possessed by any player), that player receives the Power of Monaco. The Power of Monaco allows the player to chose any one country that is possessed by any player and immediately award possession of that country to any other player besides him or herself. The ability to use the Power of Monaco exists until either a) another player takes possession of Monaco or b) the instant after the player has used the Power of Monaco, whichever comes first. 31: Monaco and Her Many Masters Whenever a Rule is passed which includes the name of a type of animal anywhere in the text or Name of the Rule (and which has not been mentioned in any other Rule), Monaco immediately becomes un- possessed (or "liberated"). Also, after any poll has closed, if there are more than 5 votes cast, AND EXACTLY 2 of the votes are negative (against the passing of the poll), Monaco immediately becomes un-possessed (or "liberated"). In either case, Possession of Monaco is then immediately transferred to the person who made the most recent previous proposal which was passed and entered into the List of Rules. 32: On Reasonable Doubt II If the suspicion that a player has broken a rule is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I), and if doubt about the validity of that suspicion is formally raised (in accordance with Rule 28: On Reasonable Doubt I and within the time limit set by that rule), the List Owner, or, if the List Owner is the player who stands to gain a country if the suspicion is upheld, the other List Moderator, shall send a message to the Pure_Nomic@yahoogroups.com e-mail list, not later than the tenth day after the doubt about the validity of the suspicion was formally raised, stating whether the doubt is reasonable or not. The message shall have the same subject line as the 'Rule Broken' message, except that the phrase 'Rule Broken' shall be replaced with the word 'Ruling'. If the ruling is that the doubt is not reasonable, then it shall be considered for the purposes of Rule 20: On The Breaking Of Rules to have been established beyond reasonable doubt that the suspected player has broken a rule; if the ruling is that the doubt is reasonable, it shall not be so considered. 33: On The Overturning Of Rulings In any case in which a Ruling is made by the List Owner (or List Moderator) in accordance with any rule then in effect, the ruling of the List Owner (or List Moderator) may be overturned by the successful passage of a Procedural Motion to that effect. Such a Procedural Motion may be proposed by any player, but may not be proposed later than the tenth day after the 'Ruling' message appears on the e-mail list. The text of the Motion must be the same as the subject line of the original 'Ruling' message, except that the word 'Ruling' shall be replaced with the phrase 'Ruling Overturned'. The poll on the Motion shall close on the tenth day after its creation, and shall pass if there are no votes against it when it closes. In creating the poll the creator shall provide an explicitly negative option (such as 'Against'), and any vote for this option shall be a vote against the motion. The vote of the List Owner or List Moderator who made the original ruling shall not be counted. The 'display voter identity' option shall be selected when the poll is created. If the Motion passes, any country given to any player as a result of the original ruling shall be returned to its previous possessor, if any, or else to 'available' state. [Last updated 27th January 2003] [An HTML version of this document is available at http://nomic.strategikon.org]